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30 Oct 2014, 3:06 pm

Sorry about the length. I have a 12 year old son with classic autism who is, and always has been, a sporadic sleeper (he never sleeps more than 4 hours at a time- sometimes he has 2 sleeping periods in one night, both very short). And when he is awake, he is extraoridinarily hyperactive (sometimes cheerfully and sometimes ferociously grumpy). He destroys the house pretty much every night (everything we own goes on the floor or gets knocked over), and he is so damn loud, I really worry about my other child not getting enough sleep because of him. He does a hysterical laughing thing, or he does what I've been told is "vocal stimming"- he yells sounds "ayayayayaya" at the top of his lungs (as he's tearing across the room and throwing himself onto the sofa and repeating the process). When he hasn't slept in days, sometimes he will do unhappy screaming, and engage in constant "exit-seeking"- to which there is no distraction- I just have to follow him around and restrain him. Fun times at 2am.

Anyhow, I just thought hey, maybe somebody on here can give me tips on this. I've gotten tips for his paediatrician and from a few therapists, and I've followed them. Basically the tips are about the bedtime routine and the bedroom. (BTW, melatonin appears to have no effect and his doc is not comfortable prescribing any other medications for sleep due to his other medications and complications). They have also said maybe he likes my attention at night- but he doesn't seek my attention at all- it's like I don't exist really... so I don't think it's that.

Our routine:
anything up to 19:00 varies by day and has lots of activity, food, and possibly electronic devices
19:00- have a snack and free play (essentially stimming in my house :lol: )
19:30- bath
20:00- reading (I read and he reads)
21:00- lights off and I sing a song, and then leave

Bedroom:
-it's facing the back yard, so there is not much city noise, although we do live in a metropolitan city so occasionally you can hear a siren or someone yelling or something (not much I can do about that). The curtains are thick and block out the street light
-there is no night light, but there are those glow-in-the-dark planets/stars on the wall (they only glow for about 15 mins after the light goes off)
-his bed is comfortable (for me anyway), and has a tent thing over it. There is also a weighted blanket. Both of those things calm him down during the day- he seems to like them

But regardless, he will usually lie there for about 5 minutes, and then I hear him get up in his bedroom. He usually runs around in there and crashes into the bed. Either he will eventually fall asleep and then wake up a few hours later, or he never falls asleep- either way, he ends up running around the house doing as I described earlier :bounce:. I have been very diligent about taking him back to bed in the past and it didn't work. Maybe I gave up too soon, but this is not a normal "bedtime defiance"...really it's not. I still go through periods where I'm going to be a "good mum" and take him back to bed 5 gazillion times... but it doesn't work anyway and plus, I don't function well at 2am. (*I should add that, when I have done taken him back to bed all night long, he gets really upset and riled up so the destruction continues and he is just as loud).

Is this ringing a bell for anyone? What would you change about my handling of it?
Thanks in advance.


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WelcomeToHolland
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02 Nov 2014, 10:22 am

Anyone?


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LupaLuna
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02 Nov 2014, 11:27 am

I don't know about your son. But I can tell you that any kind of dynamically changing noise, like talking, sirens, music, etc. can drive me crazy at night. I have to make my bedroom dead silent or use an electric fan to make white noise with to mask out any other noises. the same thing hold true for any king of flashing lights as well.



Campin_Cat
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02 Nov 2014, 11:33 am

Well, I don't really know anything about dealing with someone who has Classic Autism, but I wanted to try to offer something....

The only thing I can think-of, is.... What are you giving him for a snack at 1900? Maybe if you gave him something with dairy----like, cereal, or a small bowl of ice cream, or half a turkey sandwich and a glass of milk.

The only other thing that I could think-of, is.... Maybe you could give him some Benadryl----or, you don't seem like you're American, so you may not have that, where you are----or, any antihistamine, will do. It says on the package that a 12 y.o. can take it.



Arlo
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02 Nov 2014, 11:50 am

Aromatherapy? Deep muscle pressure before bed? Definitely consult an occupational therapist.



lunamoon1
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02 Nov 2014, 12:48 pm

I have AS and I use a mixture of sleeping tablets and herbel sleep spary. I suffered with sleep problems however I get to sleep much better
The tablets I take are called melatonin. Every body has melatonin(It's used to tell the body it's night time and you should sleep etc) however people with AS/Autism lack it. It's basically a tablet to say "Go to sleep now, you're tired" basically. These are non addictive and depending where you're from, you can get these from over the counter. I was around your son's age when I started to take them. Now I am 16, I take less as I used to take 3 and now take 1(Only on week days so I don't get my body used to them) My body is now in a routine of when to go to sleep so I nautrally feel tired, however I still take them just to get a deep sleep. I would go and see a doctor about taking them before though.
Also, I use sleep spray on my pillow to make me tired, it's herbel and smells lovely! If you live in the UK, you can buy some from The Body Shop or Avon :)
Good luck!!



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02 Nov 2014, 1:03 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Well, I don't really know anything about dealing with someone who has Classic Autism, but I wanted to try to offer something....

The only thing I can think-of, is.... What are you giving him for a snack at 1900? Maybe if you gave him something with dairy----like, cereal, or a small bowl of ice cream, or half a turkey sandwich and a glass of milk.

The only other thing that I could think-of, is.... Maybe you could give him some Benadryl----or, you don't seem like you're American, so you may not have that, where you are----or, any antihistamine, will do. It says on the package that a 12 y.o. can take it.


Gravol and Benadryl both can potentially cause agitation in children and the elderly. I'd be careful giving him either if he's never had them before.

Melatonin might help his sleep cycles, but no guarantees.

It's at least possible that medical marijuana might be a solution to consider trying, although I can't make predictions regarding effectiveness. Potentially it could help both with sleep and with reducing hyperactivity.


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dianthus
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02 Nov 2014, 1:19 pm

When I was a kid, I used to lay awake for hours at night unable to go to sleep. I would just lay there quietly and I don't think anyone ever knew I was still awake. But it was common for me to lay awake until midnight.

I never took naps during the day. I just didn't seem to need much sleep in general. As I got older, I started wanting to sleep more in the daytime and ended up with total day/night reversal by the time I was in high school. And would typically want to sleep 10-12 hours at a time.

Sleeping through the night in one go is a fairly new thing for humans (mainly since the advent of electricity). People used to go to bed early, typically as soon as it was dark outside...sleep a few hours, and then get back up to do stuff in the middle of the night. Then they had another short phase of sleep before getting up in the morning.

Your son's natural sleep pattern may be like that. It might be an exercise in futility to get him to stay in bed and sleep when he's not sleepy. It actually might makes things worse. He has energy to burn off and wants something to do. Can he do things that are quiet and don't keep others awake at night?



Raleigh
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02 Nov 2014, 2:17 pm

1) Try to increase physical activity during the day
2) Massage
3) Epsom salts bath before bed or (horror) no bath at all. My son gets stimulated by bathing and that makes it more difficult for him to sleep. It was a long battle between us, but in the end I saw it was better for him to have his way. He showers in the morning. I wash the sheets more often. Sorted.
4) Repetitive behaviours before bed. Not just routines, but encouraging stimming and even repeating a word endlessly can help. At times I've even put myself to sleep sitting up by rocking back and forth in bed.
5) If he is a stickler for rules (as many autistic children are) make a RULE. e.g. Once you are in bed, you cannot get out. You can do whatever you want in the bed, but you must stay there. I've heard this worked for Temple Grandin.
6) My son cannot sleep if there is any auditory disturbance. He must have complete silence.
7) Make sure the sheets have a nice, smooth texture and are tucked in tight so they don't wrinkle under the body. My son will only wear silk boxer shorts to bed.
8) Avoiding gluten like the plague worked too. Gluten can have an opiate effect on people with ASDs which produces a euphoria.

The reality is he may just require less sleep. I know this doesn't help when you're feeling like a zombie but that's just how it is. The teenage years seem to the worst for this unfortunately. Good luck.


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02 Nov 2014, 2:31 pm

One thing that I stumbled on by accident that helps me fall asleep. I don't know if it would work for your twelve-year-old or not. But it might be worth a try. Who knows? I have just a few movies I like a lot and can watch them over and over again. One of the theories about the desire for this kind of repetition is that people on the Spectrum tend to get frustrated and anxious about a constantly changing and unpredictable world. Watching the same film over and over again -creates a predictability factor that at least temporarily grants the relief of a non-changing and predictable world. I find this so comforting that most of the time after only a few minutes into the movie and I will fall into a fairly deep sleep.


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Raleigh
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02 Nov 2014, 3:02 pm

r2d2 wrote:
One thing that I stumbled on by accident that helps me fall asleep. I don't know if it would work for your twelve-year-old or not. But it might be worth a try. Who knows? I have just a few movies I like a lot and can watch them over and over again. One of the theories about the desire for this kind of repetition is that people on the Spectrum tend to get frustrated and anxious about a constantly changing and unpredictable world. Watching the same film over and over again -creates a predictability factor that at least temporarily grants the relief of a non-changing and predictable world. I find this so comforting that most of the time after only a few minutes into the movie and I will fall into a fairly deep sleep.

Yes, I agree. I have an album I have listened to about a million times (slight exaggeration there). It's so familiar to me now, it's soporific, even though it's a Metalcore album. The familiar is so calming.


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goldfish21
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02 Nov 2014, 3:45 pm

Insomnia, and many other symptoms, can be caused or exacerbated by Salicylate Acid Sensitivity. I've read that 70% of those on the spectrum are sensitive to SA's.

I was very sensitive to them a couple years ago. I stopped consuming anything with them for several months & can now tolerate them no problem compared to before - but that's due to other things I've done to heal my digestive tract.

Anyways, in order to detox them, all one has to do is put epsom salts on their skin to absorb the magnesium & sulphur in order to detox the acids via urination. I made a lotion out of epsom salts, water, beeswax & hemp oil that I use on my chest/back/shoulders after every shower. When I first started using it, it only took 5 days to yield significant improvements.

You could read up on SA sensitivity and learn a lot, or just try out some epsom salts in a lotion (just mix them into any lotion) or hot water foot soaks and see if they help.


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Raleigh
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02 Nov 2014, 4:49 pm

^ On the topic of Epsom salts - another method of delivery I absolutely LOVE is dissolving the salts in warm water, then getting a large, thick towel and soaking up the solution. Lay in the bath and cover yourself with the heavy, warm towel. It's so comforting and relaxing.


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02 Nov 2014, 8:17 pm

Thank you guys so much. Many good thoughts here...so many that I've written a lot again.. :/ I've been feeling haggard lately, but I feel hopeful.

LupaLuna- sadly he doesn't like white noise at all. I used to try to keep a dehumidifier in his room (for the purpose of dehumidifying, not white noise) and he would switch it off repeatedly... same with a fan..

Campin_Cat- snack is usually fruit. Are you saying dairy would be a good snack to feed him? He's lactose intolerantbut it makes him irritable so I tend to avoid giving him too much of it. I certainly don't give him refined sugar before bed (like ice cream) because he will be more hyperactive if I do. I will look further into good foods to eat before sleeping though.

Arlo- I give my other kid chamomile tea sometimes but this kid doesn't like it...will look into other aromatherapy ideas though

Lunamoon1- melatonin has no effect on him, unfortunately.

funeralxempire- my son doesn't respond normally to a lot of medications, so I would not open to giving him marijuana- I do what his doctors say. I just checked the benadryl vs his meds and there is an interaction there so that's not happening anyway. We've talked about medication and he doesn't think there's anything available that's worth risking because we do currently have a combo that's controlling his epilepsy fairly well- don't want to rock the boat.

Dianthus- I would have thought we'd have become more nocturnal with the invention of electricity because now we can have light in the middle of the night (?). That's weird. He is extremely hyperactive (all the time) and he gets into things (like he'll dump all the dish soap out on his head or something, you know..) so so far I've had very little luck with quiet activities for him. Even if he's lining up objects, he jumps and do the vocal stimming so it's loud..

Raleigh- thanks for all the ideas!
1-This kid never stops moving- he is racing and jumping around the house practically all night, then he races around his school for 6 hours, and then he trampolines for an hour straight after school, then some nights he has swimming class after that, then he comes home and races around the yard and the house.... I don't think that's even possible. Where this energy comes from is a total mystery!!
3- hmm... the bath is the best part of his day so on one hand, I feel like I can't get rid of it, but then on the other hand, it may be making him more energetic... that's definitely a possibility.
4- we do a lot of that. His hour of free play is essentially him running back and forth, which is what he likes to do. He runs to one end, jumps, flaps, runs back, jumps, flaps... and we always finish our reading session with baby stories that he has memorised and that results in some repeating of words too. I don't prevent from stimming at night (the only time I do is if we're trying to get something done and it's getting in the way)
5- he loves rules actually, and we used to have a rule which was written down. But his love for rules doesn't necessarily mean he follows rules. It doesn't really make sense/ I can't explain it, but he breaks rules and he gets really upset by the fact he just broke the rule. Last year, every single night, he would come out hysterically screaming "STAY IN YOUR ROOM" and head banging and it was just like a meltdown every night. I took down the rule, and he comes out the same amount, but now he's happier because he's not breaking a rule. It's still hard for me, but it's waaaaaay better if he's happy, so I think it's better without that rule because the rule did not decrease the amount that he came out- it just made him come out miserably. GAH!

r2d2- I've read that looking at electronics before bed increases insomnia, so I never let him watch Tv before bed. He loves the story Good Night Moon and I just found an animated version on Youtube which is short and seems to be calming.. maybe something like that every night would help? Because the main movie that he loves are the Star Wars movies, but there's so much action and noise and stuff, it doesn't seem very sleep-inducing- plus we watch it every Friday and I think that tradition works well for us..

goldfish21- ok that's another thing I'll look into! That sounds promising.


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02 Nov 2014, 8:23 pm

I've heard that one isn't supposed to eat within two hours before going to bed. Moving the snack back just a little will take it out of that window.



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02 Nov 2014, 8:27 pm

W2H - you mentioned that he likes to watch some kinds of movies and cartoons before he goes to sleep - when I was younger, I used to watch Finding Nemo a lot, and the predictability of the story and the soothing music would sometimes put me to sleep. Would a movie that's sort of calming (one that's not Star Wars) have the same effect on your son?

Also, I used to tell myself stories in my head when I couldn't fall asleep - I still do. Does he have any comfort items he enjoys, other than the weighted blanket, like stuffed animals, cars, etc? He might sleep better if he has them all with him at night, even if they're not the kind that are soft stuffed animals. One of my favorite "bedtime toys" when I was really little (transitioning from a crib to a big-kid bed) was a rubber squeak toy of Piglet from Winnie the Pooh.


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