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Edna3362
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19 Nov 2014, 10:43 am

Bad title.

The question is: Why some people mixed up children with behavior problems (NOTHING like ADHD or autism or children with real problems at home/public or emotionally disturbed/traumatized or any psychological problem at all; but simply, a very rebellious, stubborn, hard-headed NT children who really doesn't have a problem to others at all but him/herself to everyone; like a delinquent, MINUS the internal reasons, and ARE being intentional, NOT being naive or innocent; like they know 'stealing IS wrong and knows the consequences but doing it regardless like they do not care) with those who have special needs/learning disabilities/difference/real problems (that, in nature aren't completely intentional/or their fault to begin with)?

Do not answer something like: "Because people are having a hard time with either of them", or something like "Because either of them do not conform to the standard behaviors"... or similarly like "Because people just can't simply distinguish between them". And no, the former doesn't have a 'problem'.

And why can't some people see that both will not mix well, and will not end well? (being in the same classroom at most cases)

Anyways, it's just a random thought. And I want answers that aren't commonly given.


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ImAnAspie
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19 Nov 2014, 11:19 am

First of all, don't change your font to REALLY small. Old blind fools like me can't read it.

Second of all:

Edna3362 wrote:

Why some people mixed up children with behavior problems with those who have special needs/learning disabilities/difference/real problems. And why can't some people see that both will not mix well, and will not end well?


I guess it all comes down to detecting those with problems, or those with REAL problems coming forward to ask for help.

Back in my day, there was no such thing as Asperger's and I'm really high functioning so I flew under the radar really well but being smart, learning that stimming was abnormal and getting away with having an ASD didn't do me any good. Now I'm 47 and I'm still feeling the sting of having an ASD.

I've been in mental hospitals mostly for depression, OCD and alcoholism trying to cope with this HELL I've been living!
Nothing has helped. Not CBT, not DBT. Not Nothin'.

I'm stuck with this for life - but it does have A LOT of positives.

I'm not in a real' good place at the moment and I wish I could take my own advice but you've got to take the good with the bad. You've got to try to make the best of what you've got regardless of how hopeless it may seem and no matter how much you just want to leave!

Hang in there and I'm sure (I hope) everything will be alright for you.

Good luck navigating your way through your journey on this sh***y planet and it's sh***y inhabitants!! !


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naturalplastic
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19 Nov 2014, 12:45 pm

Well -yeah. The powers at be in school systems used to put the withrawn autistic kids in the same special class as the physically violent kids, and in the process make life even worse for the withdrawn autistic kids than it would be if they had left them in classes with the garden variety NT kids- which was bad enough.

So..got me!



WelcomeToHolland
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19 Nov 2014, 1:28 pm

I think there are very, very, very few "bad" children. I don't believe that an NT 6 year old who steals is just a bad kid. I think the stealing reflects problems in his life- it's not his fault at the age of 6 that he has these problems. I also think the best way to deal with an NT child with severe behavioural problems is similar to the way to deal with a child with special needs. That is, with love and compassion. Understand why they behave like this, and problem-solve. I do not believe that having a disorder or special needs or whatever, gives you (in general) a monopoly on "real problems". NT children can absolutely have real problems too. It is silly to suggest that being NT means by default that you don't have any real problems.

Now in terms of the school system. I do think it's flawed. Our school district DOES make a distinction between "behavioural problems" and developmental delay" though.


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Skilpadde
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19 Nov 2014, 2:21 pm

Edna, I agree that children who have real problems shouldn't be placed with NT brats. They're probably all gathered in one class because they all are seen as being problems, as opposed to having problems.
But I don't think all special needs children should be treated the same either, and they way too often are, from what I see.


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KimD
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19 Nov 2014, 2:35 pm

I agree with most of what's already been said, especially what WelcomeToHolland said about non-ASD kids still having genuine behavior and emotional problems, but want to add one point from my own experience: sometimes, the "ideal placement" for a student just doesn't exist. Most teachers, counselors, and school administrators do the best they can to meet the needs of all students, but it's not always as easy as putting tab A into slot B, so to speak.



EzraS
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19 Nov 2014, 2:46 pm

Because the school system is messed up. I mean one can't really give a legitimate reason for doing something like that. Probably it boils down to budget. Both types of kids need individualized attention in a special classroom from a teacher who's been specially trained. There's only so many classrooms and teachers like that available. Now the private school I go to is specifically for kids fully diagnosed with specific developmental disorders.



Edna3362
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20 Nov 2014, 5:39 am

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
I think there are very, very, very few "bad" children. I don't believe that an NT 6 year old who steals is just a bad kid. I think the stealing reflects problems in his life- it's not his fault at the age of 6 that he has these problems. I also think the best way to deal with an NT child with severe behavioural problems is similar to the way to deal with a child with special needs. That is, with love and compassion. Understand why they behave like this, and problem-solve. I do not believe that having a disorder or special needs or whatever, gives you (in general) a monopoly on "real problems". NT children can absolutely have real problems too. It is silly to suggest that being NT means by default that you don't have any real problems.


I'm much aware of NTs with real problems. To me, 1st, they are not free no matter what part of hierarchy they are. 2nd, they are fragile and vulnerable too as they are human, especially children.
Serious problems here are rather common as for someone who lives in a 3rd world country. It's not just the wrong doing of stealing I'm trying to refer at... I've seen much worse too. Some did not end up well. Some has been treated even better, and and ended up well.

And my very question is about the system, and the people within that system who mixes up. (Schools, institutes, wherever people lumps others within a certain controlled environment...)


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Zajie
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20 Nov 2014, 5:50 am

I don't like how I'm in the same class with people with many different personalities and no special care, but thinking deeper there are some advantages about it; if I were in a class with people like me and there was special care I don't think it would be good because that'd be very overprotective which is not really good for personality development and other things. But if I could choose I won't choose my current class/situation to be honest.



Edna3362
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20 Nov 2014, 11:10 am

KimD wrote:
I agree with most of what's already been said, especially what WelcomeToHolland said about non-ASD kids still having genuine behavior and emotional problems, but want to add one point from my own experience: sometimes, the "ideal placement" for a student just doesn't exist. Most teachers, counselors, and school administrators do the best they can to meet the needs of all students, but it's not always as easy as putting tab A into slot B, so to speak.


And also, what I meant by real problems, in most NT's cases; are those who are subjected to all forms of abuse and neglect (drug abuse, child abuse, sexual abuse, etc...) or 'acquired' ones (PSTD, depression, social anxiety, and list goes on...) being mixed up with others that usually not good mixing up with.

Sometimes, not all can be really treated better. In some cases, a child is a problem. After treating with love and understanding, it doesn't change; instead, the child abuses the treatment. (From being spoiled up to the point of anti-social.) The one with this kind of 'problem' turned "cunning", not "harden" not "cynical" not "tempted by influence" turned into a 'problem'.


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