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Have you explored/researched the broad autism phenotype thoroughly?
Yes 43%  43%  [ 10 ]
No 57%  57%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 23

Norny
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16 Dec 2014, 4:11 am

The broad autism phenotype appears largely unexplored by this forum. This can not only be seen directly through potentially relevant posts, but also by the fact that BAP is never suggested as a potential solution for a person's differences and/or struggles that they experience in their lives.

It is often claimed that there is a 'fine line' between autistic and NT, but BAP is consistently neglected in favour of the ASD or NT dichotomy. I believe this is creating false interpretation of what it actually means to be autistic, to have many autistic traits (BAP), to be an NT with autistic traits, or to be an NT without autistic traits - I would expect very little of this website's membership to consist of these individuals.

----------------------------------------------
Here's two questions to keep it simple:

. What do you think of when you read the abbreviation 'BAP'?
. Is there any relevant material that you have read, that may be useful for others here?
----------------------------------------------


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B19
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16 Dec 2014, 6:07 am

This article discusses BAP in an accessible and interesting way:

http://www.asknz.net/uploads/2/9/3/7/29 ... ectrum.pdf



kraftiekortie
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16 Dec 2014, 10:13 am

I hope people don't believe BAP is "half-assed" autism. I think the "purists" will probably think along those lines.



r2d2
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16 Dec 2014, 10:45 am

I can certainly think of people who are successful enough that it would be difficult to call disabled - but exhibit multiple autistic traits. One of my friends who is a very gifted and successful IT person is as socially awkward as I am - if not more so. He has a tendency to piss people off unintentionally by always saying the wrong thing without having a clue. He also has a few rather esoteric interest in which he has quite impressive expert knowledge. He definitely is a bit out there in his own world. On the other hand I don't think he has any major issues in anxiety or depression. Is it quite possible he has autistic neurology but not autistic pathology or at least not to the point of being diagnosable as a disorder? In other words under the DSM V could he be ASD Level 0 or if there was such a thing perhaps ASD Level .5? I guess that is a kind of BAP.


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16 Dec 2014, 10:57 am

I wonder what does it mean if someone is impaired by their autistic traits but they don't exhibit enough to be on the spectrum? I think that is what they call borderline autistic.


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I have a quilt of labels. I had a language disorder and a speech disorder. Then communication disorder NOS. My other diagnoses have been Language Processing disorder, dyspraxia, SPD, OCD, ADD, Asperger’s, anxiety disorder, adjustment disorder, anorexia nervosa. My mom’s labels of me are: eating disorder, anorexia, social anxiety, PTSD, just being sensitive and having the victim complex when I was a kid. And of course she says I’m normal and says the only thing I had as a child was language. Huh? I must have been a shitty person then and maybe a difficult child I was who had to be labeled because of incompetent school staff and mean kids who didn’t accept differences and because I was trying to be “normal.” :/

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16 Dec 2014, 11:16 am

If they have enough of the social difficulties but not part B difficulties then they'd be Social Communication Disorder.

If I'm not autistic them I'm probably BAP. I've outgrown most of the difficulties I had with social communication (although I still have problems with it, but they're not immediately obvious as autism) coupled with 1,2 and 4 of restricted repetitive behaviours. Maybe 3 as well, but too a lesser degree (i.e., I have interests I am somewhat restricted in but not to the extent that I don't have any other interests).



kraftiekortie
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16 Dec 2014, 11:30 am

I definitely had full-blown Kanner autism as a young child. I was officially diagnosed with autism, and "brain damage."

I probably had full-blown Asperger's as a child and adolescent (Asperger's work existed, but it wasn't disseminated amongst the general public yet). I was officially diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder at age 15.

I am "sub-clinical" in the sense that I could keep a job (albeit with some difficulty at times). I maintain a marriage and a home. I'm not so good with finances (I've made some mistakes). I have a "court-jester" persona, but I'm really not social in the "NT" sense. I enjoy kidding around. I have a "youthful" quality to me, despite me being on the cusp of being 54. I tend to enjoy my own company more; most of the time, speaking to people via computer is the only socialization I need. I am fortunate I have a low-stress job. Anything involving teamwork would throw me into a frenzy and tizzy, perhaps fatally (for the job). I have strong survival instincts, which assists me in keeping the job.

I've only started to really discern social cues fairly well; as a younger adult, I really didn't have a knack for that. I made lots of social mistakes then.

I would guess that I'm somewhere between Level 0 and Level 1(Level 0.5, if you will). If I'm stressed, I might become fully-fledged level 1.



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16 Dec 2014, 12:01 pm

Norny wrote:
The broad autism phenotype appears largely unexplored by this forum. This can not only be seen directly through potentially relevant posts, but also by the fact that BAP is never suggested as a potential solution for a person's differences and/or struggles that they experience in their lives.


It is factually untrue that BAP is never suggested.

I learned about the BAP within my first few posts here, when I thought of myself as NT and thought my son had been misdiagnosed with Aspergers. I thought BAP would actually fit me (and my son) better than ASD until I had learned more. I had to study autism because of my son's diagnosis. There are several regular posters in the parents forum and elsewhere who identify as BAP.

Entering "BAP" in the WP search field returns "about 13,700 results" -- including threads like this:
viewtopic.php?t=209134



Norny
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16 Dec 2014, 12:11 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I wonder what does it mean if someone is impaired by their autistic traits but they don't exhibit enough to be on the spectrum? I think that is what they call borderline autistic.


I think that if this is the case it would be broken into separate disorders.

For example:

. Sensory processing/integration disorder
. Executive functioning disorder (or ADHD)
. Social communication disorder

There is no official requirement or diagnosis to refer to oneself as BAP, but I would presume a person could only be BAP if autism ran in the family, or alternatively the traits were not significantly impairing.

I need to research BAP more myself. I've forgotten most of what I know about it.


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devin12
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16 Dec 2014, 12:18 pm

I really like the BAP. I also really like the RAADS test because it breaks traits into categories.



Last edited by devin12 on 16 Dec 2014, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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16 Dec 2014, 12:19 pm

ConceptuallyCurious wrote:
If they have enough of the social difficulties but not part B difficulties then they'd be Social Communication Disorder.

If I'm not autistic them I'm probably BAP. I've outgrown most of the difficulties I had with social communication (although I still have problems with it, but they're not immediately obvious as autism) coupled with 1,2 and 4 of restricted repetitive behaviours. Maybe 3 as well, but too a lesser degree (i.e., I have interests I am somewhat restricted in but not to the extent that I don't have any other interests).



What if they didn't exhibit all 3 in part A but enough in part B?


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I have a quilt of labels. I had a language disorder and a speech disorder. Then communication disorder NOS. My other diagnoses have been Language Processing disorder, dyspraxia, SPD, OCD, ADD, Asperger’s, anxiety disorder, adjustment disorder, anorexia nervosa. My mom’s labels of me are: eating disorder, anorexia, social anxiety, PTSD, just being sensitive and having the victim complex when I was a kid. And of course she says I’m normal and says the only thing I had as a child was language. Huh? I must have been a shitty person then and maybe a difficult child I was who had to be labeled because of incompetent school staff and mean kids who didn’t accept differences and because I was trying to be “normal.” :/

My blog: https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.com/


Norny
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16 Dec 2014, 12:23 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Norny wrote:
The broad autism phenotype appears largely unexplored by this forum. This can not only be seen directly through potentially relevant posts, but also by the fact that BAP is never suggested as a potential solution for a person's differences and/or struggles that they experience in their lives.


It is factually untrue that BAP is never suggested.

I learned about the BAP within my first few posts here, when I thought of myself as NT and thought my son had been misdiagnosed with Aspergers. I thought BAP would actually fit me (and my son) better than ASD until I had learned more. I had to study autism because of my son's diagnosis. There are several regular posters in the parents forum and elsewhere who identify as BAP.

Entering "BAP" in the WP search field returns "about 13,700 results" -- including threads like this:
viewtopic.php?t=209134


The word 'apple' returns 13,800 results, I can't find anything valuable.

Never isn't the right word to use, but BAP is definitely discussed or suggested to anybody a whole lot less than autism and any other variant. For example, whenever a person comes here asking if they're autistic, nobody refers to BAP, while a lot lot consider autism as a potential diagnosis, or for the person to be NT.

It may just be this year that it's not being discussed so much (I only joined this year), but if that's true, then I'm not sure why. BAP doesn't seem to be brought up in discussion frequently. I'd like for there to be more posts about it, personally.

I also think the annunciation of BAP is quite cute. ;)


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gamerdad
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16 Dec 2014, 12:30 pm

Norny wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I wonder what does it mean if someone is impaired by their autistic traits but they don't exhibit enough to be on the spectrum? I think that is what they call borderline autistic.


I think that if this is the case it would be broken into separate disorders.

For example:

. Sensory processing/integration disorder
. Executive functioning disorder (or ADHD)
. Social communication disorder

There is no official requirement or diagnosis to refer to oneself as BAP, but I would presume a person could only be BAP if autism ran in the family, or alternatively the traits were not significantly impairing.

I need to research BAP more myself. I've forgotten most of what I know about it.

The old diagnosis of PDD:NOS also covered that scenario some too, where a mental health professional could diagnose you with it if you met some, but not all of the criteria for Asperger's or Autism.

I'm not certain if BAP has to run in the family, but I think that's the only circumstance where people really consider it because generally the traits are mild enough that it's difficult for someone to say "because autism" if you don't have some other indicator pointing you in that direction (as in a genetic connection to someone diagnosed).



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16 Dec 2014, 12:41 pm

These might be interesting if you want to know more about the BAP:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746421/

http://www.molecularautism.com/content/1/1/10

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/in-br ... n-families

Also this WP thread reveals some interesting things:
LINK

Two others from SFARI that might be interesting:

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/blog/2011/parent-trap

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/blog/ ... ntal-trust



Last edited by Adamantium on 16 Dec 2014, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AspieUtah
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16 Dec 2014, 12:57 pm

I voted "no" but, that isn't for lack of trying. The only BAP information I can find are research studies among family members, though I have found some about non-familial BAP as control groups in genetic studies. The only diagnostic criteria I can find is anecdotal descriptions about individuals (primarily family members) who exhibit some characteristics but not severely enough to otherwise qualify for an ASD diagnosis.

The studies that Adamantium has just posted are a great addition to this topic, but limit their findings to nuclear-family members. For myself, at least, I have just one grandnephew (aged 8) who has HFA, so it appears my AS would be a de novo or simplex occurrence. I have read a few other studies that are beginning to include long-range genealogical research beyond nuclear influences, but, for now, it appears limited.

I like the idea of BAP (and, as Cambridge has researched, MAP and NAP). It helps individuals with an undiagnosable number or severity of characteristics avoid being denied any recognition. Clearly, though, its study is quite new.


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