Non Binary People

Post Reply New Topic

Nope, nope, you haven't answered the one question.

Autism is a disorder. Does that make you autistic or not?

Enough with the deflection and cherry picking.

Try answering that one simple question without any crap or deflection. It is a simple yes or no.

My being autistic has nothing to do with this. And you never directly asked me if I was autistic, so how am I deflecting?

Yes, autism is a disorder. I have a disorder. I am outside of the norm. What is your point?

Are you trying to imply that I think people outside the norm are some how sub-human? I never said any such thing.

Simple. The point is this. You cannot claim a disorder makes you autistic, but another disorder does not affect gender. They are exactly the same thing. A disorder that makes a person a certain way.

That is you cherry picking to suit a very, very limited viewpoint by ignoring this fact.

And, your definition of 'disorder' relies on such a limited viewpoint as well. But I adopted that stance just to illustrate how hypocritical it is to say it's ok for you to have a disorder that makes you a certain way, but others cannot.

Mighty hypocritical indeed.

Anything beyond this, is you just wanting to cling to your perspective regardless of the double standard you wish to apply.

And, who said anything about subhuman? I just said you are being hypocritical.

I never said a disorder doesn't affect gender (or identity).

I never said it was "wrong" to have a disorder. When did I say that? Abnormal doesn't mean "wrong."

Actually, you are the only one here I have noticed saying there are only two genders. You claim biology and say it's a disorder.

So, the disorder, as you choose to put it, creates additional genders. Just as your disorder makes you autistic, the other disorders create additional genders. Both biologically as well as societal roles.

A 'disorder' that maps a female brain into a male body is exactly the same as the Autism remapping the brain.

And that will make the person have female traits and identify with female.

Your whole premise is that there are only male and female. And, that is limited in perspective and hypocritical.

I really have no more to say on this. Accept it, don't accept it. It makes no difference to me. You have failed to account for intersexed individuals as well as full hermaphroditic conditions where there are actually two full sets of biological parts and in some cases, functioning.

Yes, there are only two genders. Trans people transition to the other gender. That's what "trans" means.

Intersex is birth defect, not a new gender.



Um, yeah, I already said that, and I never said otherwise. A transwoman has a female brain in a male body, and thus transitions into a female. The opposite is true for a transman. But transgender people do not transition into some third or fourth bizarro-gender.

Even for trans people, there are still only two genders, male and female.

Here is what I said in my first post:



If you think I'm some kind of lunatic transpobe, you are mistaken.

Go watch Blair White's video on youtube about gender not being a social construct. I would post it here, but this damn thing won't let me.

1. Do not try to even put words in my mouth.

2. You are using every excuse to argue.

I would have a lot to say about the trollish behaviour but I don't wanna respond to the level you seem to want and get banned or even warned for dealing with such a limited perspective. Have fun on your own.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

You are completely off base in everything you are saying, no credible source defines gender as being based on chromosomes. And even the most basic biologically class at a very conservative college pointed out gender is not the same thing as sex, and biological sex can be defined in multiple different ways. It's also important to note that even with the chromosome definition for sex is non-binary, as even if you define male by the presence of absence of a y chromosome, said y chromosome may be damaged to point it cannot be neatly classified as present or absent, and yes, that actually does happen to some people. Saying it's a disorder rather than a sex does not answer the question of WHICH sex is disordered, it can be argued either way, so it's non-binary. If nothing else you'd have to argue they are sexless, which would still be a third sex and thus non-binary. The only biological definition of sex which is strictly binary is with gametes, where the male gamete is smaller than the female gamete in the same species, but that only works on the cellar level as things get way more complicated with multi-cellar organisms. So, considering that sex is non-binary, it only follows that gender is definitely non-binary.

You also have a very bizarre notion of transgender. If transgender people can exist despite their chromosomes, than why can't non-binary gender exist despite chromosomes? Your argument makes no sense. How crazy it sounds to normal people is not an argument for something not existing. No, I will not stop it, as attitudes from people like you make things way harder for people like me. You are belittling the issues I face.

Ok, so -
- You are confusing sex and gender. Gender is the social, psychological, emotional, and intellectual facet of the topic. Sex is the physical makeup your were born with. There have been examples of variances in both socio-psychological sex and gender, as said.
- You seem to be basing your argument on an empirical evidence basis, however you ignore other points raised that engage this, and make excuses to just dismiss them and continue to enforce your opinion.
You also give no evidence for your own opinion outside simply stating it as fact.
- However it seems as if your opinion is far from empirically based, as you then engage in purely emotional validation. This is the part of your opinion that interests me. For example :
1. How can genderqueer people being who they are possibly damage binary transpeople who are unconnected with them? The presence of genderqueer identity is separate, and does not restrict binary transition at all. Genderqueer people do not exist to make life any easier or harder for binary transpeople. They are what they are regardless of what binary transpeople are. Genderqueer identity does not "belittle" or invalidate binary transgender identity in any way that I can see. I have never heard a genderqueer perspective claiming that binary gender is invalid or non-existent, for example. Genderqueer identity existing does not cause damage to other transfolk. However denying its existence, and maligning all genderqueers as fakers, attention seekers or mentally ill as tou have does have the potential for harm, especially if the medical profession agreed, which thankfully they do not.
2. You seem very emphatic that you are not transphobic, but the attitude you are displaying here is exactly that. Before genderqueer people had visibility, binary transgender people were told they were insane, seeking attention, or confused. They were told there are two sexes and it is impossible not to be the sex or gender you were born. Your chromosomes were everything that mattered. Look familiar? You say you believe in the legitimacy of binary transition, when you are using the same arguments transphobes use against binary transfolk, just against genderqueers. This is not a new idea. If you believe in the legitimacy of binary transition even if the chromosomal makeup does not alter, then I don't understand how you completely invalidate genderqueer transition and identity when they undergo the same process. If you acknowledge someone as legitimately transsexual in a binary sense even if their chromosomal makeup does not alter, it makes no sense to invalidate genderqueer transition based on the same argument.
- You don't seem to be understanding that this topic has a level of interpretation involved. Your opinions are you own opinions, and nothing more than that. If you really wish to learn something new about it and understand, then here may be a good place to do so. But in my own opinion, simply restating offensive things on the Internet to argue with others is the thing that does no one any favours.
So I ask - what, really, is your problem with the topic?

I never said gender and sex were the same thing.

Nor did I say gender was based on chromosomes.

Gender is not a social construct. To say that it is, is insulting to trans people. I have heard actual trans people say that it's insulting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9WqfBDjRF8

Just because a transperson says it's insulting doesn't mean it's not true. The fact is sex of the brain is distinctly non-binary, as neurology is complicated, and likewise gender is more complicated than just the sex of the brain. Sex of the brain is definitely a factor, but so are various cultural norms, as that is ultimately how gender is understood. With out taking culture into account, the very idea of transgender makes no sense.

All this talk about science and gender not being a social construct and about biology and the like, what about people who identify agender? I'm sure there's an agender mindset where people's way of thinking is not gendered at all. I know an AFAB who identifies agender, has even had work done and everything and gets really insecure when associated with anything that has to do with their biological sex. I don't know about gendered mind and one more then the other but I would think if someone would legit go to the extent of having work done to where they have to take special meds for the rest of their lives obviously they would be an agender person inside and out.