Which one of these people is doing more damage to our image?

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Which one of these is doing the most damage to our image?
1. Chris Chan 15%  15%  [ 11 ]
2. Simon Baron-Cohen 8%  8%  [ 6 ]
3. The blogging Autism Moms 44%  44%  [ 31 ]
4. Nobody 10%  10%  [ 7 ]
5. Somebody else entirely - tell me who, tell me, tell me, tell me. 23%  23%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 71

OliveOilMom
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26 Jan 2015, 11:26 am

androbot01 wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Why would they offer me assistance? I don't need any assistance.

I'm interested in what they have to offer adults with autism. Not specifically you.


I'll add that to my list of questions.


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26 Jan 2015, 11:46 am

Seriously, six pages and nobody has said Adam Lanza or Elliott Rodgers?

People like them are causing the most damage to our image, as well as to those with schizophrenia.


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26 Jan 2015, 11:57 am

THERE IS NO CONSISTENT image of Autism that applies to any two Autistic People in REAL LIVING COLOR LIFE.

Therefore the whole concept is a moot point and entirely Internet manufactured illusion.

And as far as the Hans Asperger case studied abstract concept of Asperger's goes, people, overall, in the general public still have no idea what it is, and in some cases, not even the folks who have it.

The APA by way of the DSMIV and now non-existent description of Asperger's in the DSM5 never did, as it did not come close to what Hans Aspeger describes in fuller totality, in his case studies.

But the Gillberg Criteria does.

It is impossible to even discuss this issue, in a reasoned fashion, until someone can define what the image of Autism even is.

It goes from Fragile X Syndrome to folks on this forum, diagnosed and self-diagnosed, or just suspecting, by way of tests like the Autism Quotient Test and the Aspie Quiz that in all seriousness can capture a person with Social Anxiety and OCD in a heart beat of potential scale of suspicion, as such, for a real diagnosis that even doctors admit is far from perfect, and often incorrect.

In my opinion, people with or without the diagnosis MOST OFTEN do the most damage to themselves.

SO I CHOOSE OTHER but nah, there is no specific entity but 'YOU' FOR METAPHOR.

And to be crystal clear that is not directed at you, Olive Oil Mom, ONLY THE OP. :)


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26 Jan 2015, 12:31 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't see that respect is anything that they will be given and I honestly think that someone with that level of paranoia doesn't deserve to be taken seriously at all.

Quote:
After hearing the same conspiracy theories over and over, you do tend to dismiss the people who spout them. At least I do. I'm simply not taking the paranoid people seriously about this, or their ideas.

I resent being called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. Wether you take me seriously or not doesn't concern me as I don't take you particular seriously either. But for the record I don't think 911 was a US action, I suspect the moon landing actually did happen and I accept that Elvis is dead. And I don't think the actions of Autism Speaks are a conspiracy. Their actions are quite out in the open.

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So people with leprosy might be offended by being called lepers? WTH???

You are missing the implications of the word leper. It is not just a term used for a disease.



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26 Jan 2015, 12:52 pm

I think my ex boyfriend may have had been one. He believed the government could take your house if he wanted it and he just kicks you out without any warning and he thought they also hired someone to assassinate a person for them when the person knows something they don't want them to know so thus the reason why some people disappear and are never found. My mom thought he was a schizophrenic because he had lot of "strange" beliefs. One of my aspie friends had friends who are conspiracy theorists and they wear him out too when he has to listen to it.

I sometimes get a crazy idea about what if there are actually time machines and that was how Anne Frank's family was found because something must have happened that made them famous so someone thought they could change the history by giving an anonymous call and to this day no one still knows who mad that call. Someone told me "actually this has been expressed before" so I saw I wasn't the only one with this crazy idea lol. I don't really believe in my own idea so I won't argue over it like my ex would about his ideas. He hated when I would challenge his ideas and when I wouldn't agree so he would keep on arguing and not drop it.


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26 Jan 2015, 12:53 pm

androbot01 wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't see that respect is anything that they will be given and I honestly think that someone with that level of paranoia doesn't deserve to be taken seriously at all.

Quote:
After hearing the same conspiracy theories over and over, you do tend to dismiss the people who spout them. At least I do. I'm simply not taking the paranoid people seriously about this, or their ideas.

I resent being called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. Wether you take me seriously or not doesn't concern me as I don't take you particular seriously either. But for the record I don't think 911 was a US action, I suspect the moon landing actually did happen and I accept that Elvis is dead. And I don't think the actions of Autism Speaks are a conspiracy. Their actions are quite out in the open.


I didn't call you paranoid or a conspiracy theorist directly. If you suspect that your thoughts on this might be considered over the top, paranoid or conspiracy theory sounding then maybe take a second look at them. I'm not talking about the people who are offended because Autism Speaks only shows the ads about low functioning children and it's all doom and gloom rather than show successful adults with autism and ask for monetary support to help fund programs and therapies to help more be as successful, I'm talking about people who say that Autism Speaks wants to kill off all autistics, and hates us all, and is evil and full of all kinds of nefarious ulterior motives rather than being somewhat misguided in it's media representation of autistics. If you fit into that category, then I consider you paranoid and a conspiracy theorist, and it only takes buying into one conspiracy theory to be considered a conspiracy theorist you know. They aren't bad people, I know several of them, they just have a big bee in their bonnets about a particular subject and refuse to consider any other viewpoint. If you resent my opinion, I honestly don't care. I certainly didn't post "<your name> is a paranoid conspiracy theorist!" I just said that those who spout that theory to be in that group. I have no problem agreeing to disagree, however isn't it a bit paranoid to take my statement and decide I'm talking about you and get resentful? Kind of like how people see the doom and gloom Autism Speaks commercials and decide that Autism Speaks must want them locked away or killed? I'm just saying.....

Plus, I've considered the viewpoints of those who feel that way about A.Speaks. After doing some reading and research, I discounted it as people taking something personally that obviously wasn't meant that way, but everybody's entitled to their opinion, and in the long run mine doesn't hurt you and yours doesn't hurt mine.

Quote:
So people with leprosy might be offended by being called lepers? WTH???

You are missing the implications of the word leper. It is not just a term used for a disease.[/quote]

I'm aware of what the word leper means in the vernacular, but that doesn't change the story of St Francis. The connotations of leper in the vernacular and leper in the particular usage is actually a good fit. People do treat many of us like lepers as a knee jerk reaction, and like leprosy, autism is thought of to be something very different than it is. Whats so wrong with that? Nobody's saying "They should be shunned I tell you, SHUNNED!" Something sounded like it was meant to be offensive so therefore it had to be, right? It doesn't matter what was actually meant and it doesn't matter that it makes sense and isn't offensive at all when you look it over and see it logically. This reminds me of the controversy several years ago about the man who used the word "niggardly" in a speech. It sounds like it's related to that other n word that is contained in it, but it has absolutely nothing to do with anything except being cheap and a big ole tightwad. It's nothing at all to do with race, but it sounds like might and should, so it's best to get offended and not take any chances. Same with the use of the word leper in a discussion of autism. It can mean outcast, so rather than comparing the fact that many of us are outcasts, it must be taken as meaning we deserve to be outcasts because somebody, somewhere, sometimes in the past said that we should be.

I honestly think they do go overboard with the doom crying, but that's very different than starting up an underground eugenics program. Then again, maybe it's part of the New World Order, and if I remember correctly the Shriners do something or other for autistic children don't they, and Shriners are Freemasons..........


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26 Jan 2015, 1:07 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I think my ex boyfriend may have had been one. He believed the government could take your house if he wanted it and he just kicks you out without any warning and he thought they also hired someone to assassinate a person for them when the person knows something they don't want them to know so thus the reason why some people disappear and are never found. My mom thought he was a schizophrenic because he had lot of "strange" beliefs. One of my aspie friends had friends who are conspiracy theorists and they wear him out too when he has to listen to it.

I sometimes get a crazy idea about what if there are actually time machines and that was how Anne Frank's family was found because something must have happened that made them famous so someone thought they could change the history by giving an anonymous call and to this day no one still knows who mad that call. Someone told me "actually this has been expressed before" so I saw I wasn't the only one with this crazy idea lol. I don't really believe in my own idea so I won't argue over it like my ex would about his ideas. He hated when I would challenge his ideas and when I wouldn't agree so he would keep on arguing and not drop it.


The government can take your house if they want to, but they have to pay you for it. It's called imminent domain. They usually just force you to sell to them because they are putting a road or something through there, and if you don't willingly sell they send you a check and then the cops come and remove you physically from your house and they tear it down.

I went to school with a girl whose Daddy believed the moon landing wasn't real and he taught all eight of his kids that. None of them believed in it and one of those kids was in my class and she would argue with the teachers about it. All those kids did.

My oldest son believes 9/11 was an inside job. Both my sons will watch crazy documentaries on tv and believe them because they sound good. Those boys are too gullible! They are intelligent, normal boys, but will believe anything like that if it sounds good enough.

I have a theory about time travel. I don't believe it will ever be possible because if it ever becomes real then somebody, somewhere will come back in time and spill the beans about it. That hasn't happened yet, so it will never happen. That may not make a lot of sense, but that's what I believe.

I also don't believe in aliens at all. I know I'm in the minority but I don't. I believe in vampires, ghosts, demons, werewolves, magic, spells, elves, faries, gnomes, etc etc etc, but I do not believe in space aliens. Or zombies. As long as I don't base any major life decisions on the existence of any of those, I don't think my belief in them is hurting anything ;-)

Living out in the country like I do, I've come across some crazy conspiracy theories that folks have. It's amazing the things they can link together like that. One boy who writes for our paper is paranoid as hell about everything. Everything has a motive and it's usually pure evil. If it's not the Republicans that are out to get him, it's the Tea Party or it's the Militia or it's the Bible Methodists, or it's the Masons or the Antichrist or whatever he's been reading about recently. This makes for some pretty unintentionally hilarious op-ed columns from him. I honestly thought about talking to the editor and asking him to give me a shot at his job instead, but I don't want to deprive myself and others the chance to laugh at him weekly. I know him personally and he's an ass, so it's ok to laugh at him. He's pompous as hell and a huge know it all. It wouldn't be as funny if he wasn't proven wrong almost every time it's possible for him to be, yet he still goes around spouting this and that and doing "investigative journalism" and writing other articles for our town's paper where he tries to uncover this or that. Half the people in town take his word as gospel and the other half are busy laughing at him. He's the older brother of my oldest son's first girlfriend, who is the girl whose hair I did and her bridesmaids hair for her wedding a couple years ago when she married the guy who lives two blocks from here who used to throw sandwiches from his roof at people riding by on bicycles and beaned my son in the head with one a week after we moved down here. (Small town). I don't much like him. Most people don't.

If you have Netflix, look through some of the documentaries on there. You'll find more crazy than you can shake a stick at.


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26 Jan 2015, 1:15 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I'm talking about people who say that Autism Speaks wants to kill off all autistics...If you fit into that category, then I consider you paranoid and a conspiracy theorist,

Yes you've been quite clear on this.
I won't go into the implications of genetic research as you wont accept what I see as obvious. But frankly, right now I wish my Mom had had access to my genetic information before I was born, so I could have been aborted.



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26 Jan 2015, 1:52 pm

androbot01 wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I'm talking about people who say that Autism Speaks wants to kill off all autistics...If you fit into that category, then I consider you paranoid and a conspiracy theorist,

Yes you've been quite clear on this.
I won't go into the implications of genetic research as you wont accept what I see as obvious. But frankly, right now I wish my Mom had had access to my genetic information before I was born, so I could have been aborted.


Oh, Im sure that people will abort autistic kids if and when a test comes out to identify them. I also agree that Autism Speaks could do a lot to help prevent some of the abortions by showing a more positive side of adults with autism who aren't dependent for their entire lives or who at least are able to communicate and function well within the family. It happened with Down Syndrome, it happened with Spina Bifita, it happens with anything that can be considered a birth defect. Other things need to be researched as well as just a prenatal test for autism. There need to be more and better therapies and meds and lots of things to help use do better in life. I'm very aware of the implications of genetic research, but thats true for not just autism, it's true for everything that could be undesirable. Hell, for all we know they may one day be able to tell if a baby is going to have ADHD or be nearsighted, or an one of a million different things that a parent may choose to abort for. I don't agree with doing that, but it's a possibility. That doesn't mean we shouldn't learn how to test for these. There is a lot of good that can come of knowing what to expect with your child as well, even if you don't abort.

As for my opinion of paranoia and conspiracy, so what? I'm one person, who you don't really know and probably will never meet in person, who has no real effect on you or your life, so why would my opinion of your point of view about this mean anything to you? My opinion doesn't mean squat. It's also only my opinion of your opinion about Autism Speaks, not about you as a person. What's made you decide now that you wish your mother had known you'd have AS and aborted you? If autism isn't a problem and something that's hard to deal with then why would you want to be aborted because of it? Aren't the people who are up in arms over Autism Speaks wanting autism to be seen as a positive and as a gift and not a disorder or disease or something wrong? If thats the case, why suddenly do you wish to have been aborted for it? I certainly hope you didn't say that because of my opinion about your opinion. Everyone has a right to their own feelings, but that's going way overboard if that was the reason and it would kind of confirm what I had said. There's always going to be somebody out there who strongly disagrees with you (or me or anybody else for that matter) and if you can't deal with dissenting opinions, then it's going to be very difficult to ever debate an issue. While I may come across as blunt and even rude sometimes, I'm usually not trying to insult, and I wasn't trying to insult you in the previous posts.

Oddly enough, I was just flipping through Netflix looking for something else to watch now that Amazon has decided to be crappy and stop working well on the tv, and I found a documentary called "Homo Sapiens 1900" and it's about a eugenics program. I'm watching it now, since it seems to be somewhat related to an online conversation I'm having. I'll see what all they talk about. It was made in 2000. I'll post and let ya'll all know how it was after it's finished. So far it's really slow and just has a lot of terrible background music.


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26 Jan 2015, 2:07 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Oh, Im sure that people will abort autistic kids if and when a test comes out to identify them. I also agree that Autism Speaks could do a lot to help prevent some of the abortions by showing a more positive side of adults with autism who aren't dependent for their entire lives or who at least are able to communicate and function well within the family.

OMG, we agree. :D

Quote:
What's made you decide now that you wish your mother had known you'd have AS and aborted you? If autism isn't a problem and something that's hard to deal with then why would you want to be aborted because of it?

Not because of my autism, but because I just can't seem to find a place in the world. If autism were more widely understood, I think I could be okay. Maybe 100 years from now we may be better accepted, or possibly we won't exist at all. But right now, I'm sick of being an outsider.



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26 Jan 2015, 5:01 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Tell you what Moromillos, before I get further into the discussion with you, I want to ask you a question. What are the signs and symptoms of Asperger's Syndrome, what are the specific benefits of having it, and what are the troublesome issues that are caused by it?

Please answer me that before we go any further.

Also, are you professionally diagnosed or self diagnosed? That has no bearing on anything, I'm just nosy.

One other thing, where did "Aspergian" come from? To me that actually sounds like somebody that has something a lot worse than mild autism. Or like some kind of alien lol. I don't mind "aspie" even though it sounds like a cutsie nickname for a type of snake lol.


If it doesn't sound like 'mild autism' then that's a good thing. All that we have to put up with and deal with, is anything but mild. The APA are idiots for jamming the two together and calling one "mild", some people just don't make wise decisions. I suppose Aspie IS a cutsie nickname.

It comes from Hans' last name, which is also where the word "Asperger's" is derived.

"Able autistic individuals can rise to eminent positions and perform with such outstanding success that one may even conclude that only such people are capable of certain achievements … Their unswerving determination and penetrating intellectual powers, part of their spontaneous and original mental activity, their narrowness and single-mindedness, as manifested in their special interests, can be immensely valuable and can lead to outstanding achievements in their chosen areas."
-- Hans Asperger (1944)

It's already a terrible loss that such potential is often squandered. To genetically get rid of it, would be one hell of a deathblow to the human species.

Oh, professionally, not long after the start of school. Are you self diagnosed?



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26 Jan 2015, 5:26 pm

Also, people that don't think Speaks is abhorrent and that detractors are a bunch of conspiracy theorists, are willfully ignorant at this point.



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26 Jan 2015, 5:50 pm

Moromillas wrote:
Also, people that don't think Speaks is abhorrent and that detractors are a bunch of conspiracy theorists, are willfully ignorant at this point.


AND THAT'S just another conspiracy theory waiting to start.

Dude, or dudette, or whomever you are, I PAY NO ATTENTION TO CONSPIRACY THEORIES, including the silly one about Autism Speaks being a hate group against Autistic folks. And that's as silly as it gets considering that most of the folks who started AUTISM SPEAKS, are PARENTS OF AUTISTIC CHILDREN WHO ARE INCREDIBLY IN LOVE WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

COMMON sense could rule here, IT REALLY could.

BUT The FACT of the matter is according to the New England Journal of Medicine there is a minority demographic in the general population that is RIPE TO BELIEVE, IN almost any conspiracy theory that comes their way.

And YES, THIS most definitely includes SOME online so-called autistic folks, as has been proven over and over ad-nauseam here and almost everywhere else online, at LEAST in SOME cases.

I UNDERSTAND the nature of the beast and used it to my advantage as a mindless passtime to argue against conspiracy theorists, some of whom who are LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO bring the light of facts to.

It was a great device to escape pain, and thank GOD I DO not have to live in that Hamster Wheel of pain anymore.

I hope the same for others but again, like the New England Journal of Medicine, I understand the nature of the conspiracy leaning believing folks in THAT demographic of the general public.

This is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT THAN BELIEVING that vaccines are the cause of ALL Autism, and vaccines in general are some kind of frigging government conspiracy to thin the herd out.

Folks like Alex Jones thrive on THAT demographic to the TUNE of millions of dollars in revenue, as the target audience is always READY TO BITE HIS BAIT of government conspiracy theories.

Other than that, THAT demographic is of sociological and anthropological interest to me, per why I am even taking the time to address the issue here.

THE excuses are still interesting to me but the essence of the issue of conflict REMAINS THE SAME, AGAIN, ad-nauseam, to me at least.

And to be crystal CLEAR, I AM NOT DIRECTING ANY OF THIS AT you personally.

I am only addressing the OP, in general.


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26 Jan 2015, 6:05 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I think my ex boyfriend may have had been one. He believed the government could take your house if he wanted it and he just kicks you out without any warning and he thought they also hired someone to assassinate a person for them when the person knows something they don't want them to know so thus the reason why some people disappear and are never found. My mom thought he was a schizophrenic because he had lot of "strange" beliefs. One of my aspie friends had friends who are conspiracy theorists and they wear him out too when he has to listen to it.

I sometimes get a crazy idea about what if there are actually time machines and that was how Anne Frank's family was found because something must have happened that made them famous so someone thought they could change the history by giving an anonymous call and to this day no one still knows who mad that call. Someone told me "actually this has been expressed before" so I saw I wasn't the only one with this crazy idea lol. I don't really believe in my own idea so I won't argue over it like my ex would about his ideas. He hated when I would challenge his ideas and when I wouldn't agree so he would keep on arguing and not drop it.


The government can take your house if they want to, but they have to pay you for it. It's called imminent domain. They usually just force you to sell to them because they are putting a road or something through there, and if you don't willingly sell they send you a check and then the cops come and remove you physically from your house and they tear it down.

I went to school with a girl whose Daddy believed the moon landing wasn't real and he taught all eight of his kids that. None of them believed in it and one of those kids was in my class and she would argue with the teachers about it. All those kids did.

My oldest son believes 9/11 was an inside job. Both my sons will watch crazy documentaries on tv and believe them because they sound good. Those boys are too gullible! They are intelligent, normal boys, but will believe anything like that if it sounds good enough.

I have a theory about time travel. I don't believe it will ever be possible because if it ever becomes real then somebody, somewhere will come back in time and spill the beans about it. That hasn't happened yet, so it will never happen. That may not make a lot of sense, but that's what I believe.

I also don't believe in aliens at all. I know I'm in the minority but I don't. I believe in vampires, ghosts, demons, werewolves, magic, spells, elves, faries, gnomes, etc etc etc, but I do not believe in space aliens. Or zombies. As long as I don't base any major life decisions on the existence of any of those, I don't think my belief in them is hurting anything ;-)

Living out in the country like I do, I've come across some crazy conspiracy theories that folks have. It's amazing the things they can link together like that. One boy who writes for our paper is paranoid as hell about everything. Everything has a motive and it's usually pure evil. If it's not the Republicans that are out to get him, it's the Tea Party or it's the Militia or it's the Bible Methodists, or it's the Masons or the Antichrist or whatever he's been reading about recently. This makes for some pretty unintentionally hilarious op-ed columns from him. I honestly thought about talking to the editor and asking him to give me a shot at his job instead, but I don't want to deprive myself and others the chance to laugh at him weekly. I know him personally and he's an ass, so it's ok to laugh at him. He's pompous as hell and a huge know it all. It wouldn't be as funny if he wasn't proven wrong almost every time it's possible for him to be, yet he still goes around spouting this and that and doing "investigative journalism" and writing other articles for our town's paper where he tries to uncover this or that. Half the people in town take his word as gospel and the other half are busy laughing at him. He's the older brother of my oldest son's first girlfriend, who is the girl whose hair I did and her bridesmaids hair for her wedding a couple years ago when she married the guy who lives two blocks from here who used to throw sandwiches from his roof at people riding by on bicycles and beaned my son in the head with one a week after we moved down here. (Small town). I don't much like him. Most people don't.

If you have Netflix, look through some of the documentaries on there. You'll find more crazy than you can shake a stick at.



Yes they can take your house but my ex made it out to be if the gov decided he wanted it so he walks up to your door and tells you to leave and hands you a box and tells you you have an hour to get your stuff in it and get out. I knew it didn't work like that. He also believed they can just come and take your stuff if they want to. Well if it isn't yours like if its rented or if you bought it with credit cards, they can come and take it to repossess it (or is that only on TV when someone goes bankrupt so a bunch of people go in their home and take their stuff they have to give back?). If you are a hoarder and you have so much stuff you can't even get around in your own home, yeah people come and clean it out for you.

If your home is repossessed or foreclosed or if there was going to be a new high way put in or road widened, yes they give you a notice and give you time to move out and they buy your house from you, especially if the whole town gets unsafe which has happened to two places I know (Pitcher, OK and Centralia, PA) and they buy your home and you move.

I am sure there was more to the story when my ex told me how it happened to someone he knew and he didn't know all the details. I just found it unbelievable but he seemed to twist things he saw and heard so he could have been doing that.


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26 Jan 2015, 6:17 pm

Moromillias, I am professionally diagnosed, when I was well into middle age. Thats where I learned about Aspergers. I did quite a bit of research afterwards.

I know where the name Asperger's Syndrome comes from, I asked where Aspergian came from. That's one of the nicknames for it, I suppose.

I am also certainly not willfully ignorant and actually not ignorant at all, simply because I refuse to jump on the hurt feelings, take everything personally and blow it all up out of proportion because it's all a secret Nazi eugenics program bandwagon.


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Sweetleaf
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26 Jan 2015, 6:20 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Seriously, six pages and nobody has said Adam Lanza or Elliott Rodgers?

People like them are causing the most damage to our image, as well as to those with schizophrenia.


:roll: I knew eventually someone would not be able to resist bringing that up yet again. Elliot Rodgers was not diagnosed with aspergers syndrome and no substantial proof he had it for one. Also how do you figure people with schizophrenia damage the image of autistics? why do I get the feeling the answer to that will be filled with stigmatizing generalizations about people with schizophrenia.


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