usa is mass-killing people and nobody cares

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0_equals_true
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07 Feb 2015, 5:41 pm

Fnord, and think for a minute why that attitude, doesn't win any favours and is most detrimental to the US itself.

I have spent a lot of time defending the US, in this thread, but you I can't defend that. Why? Because it as ridiculous and conceited as the OP.

I understand why you might be defensive, but come on, you can do better than that. You are smart, you can make a better argument, such as starting with the good things that the US exports.



Ganondox
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07 Feb 2015, 5:53 pm

"Why is not the world doing revolt?"

Because the US has the nukes. Anyway, it's true the US has done a lot of harm, but they have also done a lot of good, it's not a clear cut issue either way. Saying no one cares about the people the US has killed certainly isn't true, but the US has power. At least the US has admitted it killed many, many people irresponsibly later on. I will say the US has poverty problems, but they aren't nearly as bad as the poverty problems in some countries.


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Humanaut
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07 Feb 2015, 6:22 pm

white_as_snow wrote:
USA has invaded many countrys and killed millions.

Stop giving the US all the credit. Killing bad guys is a routine that involves the civilized world as a whole.



lostonearth35
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07 Feb 2015, 6:44 pm

I hate to say it, but Canada is really not much different from the States. But everyone seems to love us, we're just the great big white friendly country.(I mean white as in snowy). Going to Cuba isn't a huge deal, my parents have gone there a dew times where it's just an affordable place to take a tropical vacation and get high quality cigars. :)

But a lot of things about the Middle East scare me. In fact just about everything about it is terrifying to me. Maybe that's because I'm a woman. Who for the time being can spend her life wearing jeans and a T-shirt. I don't want to live in a world where I can't expose more skin than what's on my eyelids unless it's to protect my face from blowing snow. I want to be still allowed to go anywhere I want to still be able to go anywhere I want by myself without a male escort. I don't want to be married to even one man, let alone several of them, and I want to still be allowed to enjoy my one of my most treasured childhood books, Charlotte's Web, where the co-protagonist is a PIG. Yes, I read how even fictional pigs aren't accepted over there. Don't they know pigs are one of the most intelligent animals in the world and, if given the proper living quarters, actually keep themselves clean? Not like some *other* unnamed male species...

But they're not going to listen to my point of view all because of the fact that I'm female. :x



0_equals_true
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07 Feb 2015, 6:52 pm

Humanaut wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
USA has invaded many countrys and killed millions.

Stop giving the US all the credit. Killing bad guys is a routine that involves the civilized world as a whole.


I'm still curious what millions is being talked about. I'm sure there is an argument in there somewhere, but conflict these days rarely involve millions.

There are things like the Rwandan genocide, but even the official account who who exactly was killed, especially their affiliation is not without controversy, and certainly the revenge action in neighboring Congo, did kill quite a number too, and that's hardly been accounted for. I wouldn't pin that on the Americans.

The Angolan civil war killed around 500,000. US didn't cause that, but I do think they contributed to prolonging it amongst others.

The Iraq war, the highest figure is around 500,000 deaths, around 125,000 civilian. That's not small, but I don't think it right to pin all those deaths on the US. Don't get me wrong the Iraq war was a total fuckup, and they do hold some responsibility the action, and the subsequent lack of any plan, then the resulting years. However they didn't pull the trigger on 125,000 civilians, so a fair bit of responsibly lies with those that did. If you kill civilian you can't claim that the 'occupiers' are responsible for that, this is faulty logic.


Still the Iraq war goes down in history as a massive fuckup and failure, no doubt.

----

When ever a question of violence, conflict or crime comes up, it is not unusual for people's perception to be way off the reality. We live in a media driven world, and this can give there impression there is more violence than there actually is. From a historical perspective this couldn't be further from the truth. There is an excellent TED lecture on the subject



Humanaut
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07 Feb 2015, 7:17 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
...the Iraq war goes down in history as a massive fuckup and failure, no doubt.

What?! That's just a pile of peacemongering gibberish. The coalition of the willing won. The current intervention seems to be going well too, and Syria can hopefully be taken in one big swoop later on given favourable conditions. This would open the door to Iran, and the barbarians could then be pushed back to the Chinese border where they will be killed from both sides at the same time.



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07 Feb 2015, 9:43 pm

Humanaut wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
...the Iraq war goes down in history as a massive fuckup and failure, no doubt.

What?! That's just a pile of peacemongering gibberish. The coalition of the willing won. The current intervention seems to be going well too, and Syria can hopefully be taken in one big swoop later on given favourable conditions. This would open the door to Iran, and the barbarians could then be pushed back to the Chinese border where they will be killed from both sides at the same time.


If you can look at the state of Iraq now and call it a victory, I would hate to see your interpretation of defeat.

The truth is nobody 'won' the Iraq war... ... not even western oil interests as the refineries are set to fall to jihadists. Especially not the Iraqi people who had and have to deal with the post Saddam chaos of insurgency and now ISIL.

This idea that Syria or Iran need 'killed' is warmongering gibberish. The Assad government is the last bastion between a ISIL state bordering Turkey and the final remnant of secularism in the country.


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Humanaut
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08 Feb 2015, 12:18 am

thomas81 wrote:
If you can look at the state of Iraq now and call it a victory, I would hate to see your interpretation of defeat.

What goes on in Iraq (and Syria) now is more than a victory. It is the icing on the cake: A bunch of terrorists killing each other. Keeping all sides armed while preventing genocidal tendencies is the best way to deal with the situation for the time being.

Quote:
The truth is nobody 'won' the Iraq war... ... not even western oil interests as the refineries are set to fall to jihadists.

The jihadis have already lost most of what little they had, and they haven't managed to noticeable interrupt production. It's pretty much business as usual for the major contractors.

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Especially not the Iraqi people who had and have to deal with the post Saddam chaos of insurgency and now ISIL.

Most are relatively safe and sound, and better off than they were under Saddam.

Quote:
This idea that Syria or Iran need 'killed' is warmongering gibberish. The Assad government is the last bastion between a ISIL state bordering Turkey and the final remnant of secularism in the country.

Assad will hopefully be replaced by a Western-oriented government after the crazies have finished killing each other.



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08 Feb 2015, 10:13 am

^^^ I don't think the crazies will get tired of killing each other any time soon.



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08 Feb 2015, 5:03 pm

Ganondox wrote:
"Why is not the world doing revolt?"

Because the US has the nukes. Anyway, it's true the US has done a lot of harm, but they have also done a lot of good, it's not a clear cut issue either way. Saying no one cares about the people the US has killed certainly isn't true, but the US has power. At least the US has admitted it killed many, many people irresponsibly later on. I will say the US has poverty problems, but they aren't nearly as bad as the poverty problems in some countries.


The US is not the only powerful nation in the world you know.



0_equals_true
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08 Feb 2015, 5:16 pm

I think Humanaut is attempting to be satirical.



0_equals_true
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08 Feb 2015, 5:17 pm

trollcatman wrote:
^^^ I don't think the crazies will get tired of killing each other any time soon.

This is something that has been going on for thirteen centuries.



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08 Feb 2015, 5:41 pm

11 pages and growing for an obvious trolling thread......
:roll:


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0_equals_true
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08 Feb 2015, 6:27 pm

Raptor wrote:
11 pages and growing for an obvious trolling thread......
:roll:

Maybe but it important thread, for a number of reasons

1. The first is to highlight people's grasp of current event and recent history and their ability to process and quantify violence.
2. To debunk meaningless and vague rhetoric.
3. To look at the actual mistakes nations have made, lest they are doomed to repeat them.

On that last point boy is it needed.



Humanaut
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08 Feb 2015, 6:52 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
I think Humanaut is attempting to be satirical.

No I'm not.



eric76
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08 Feb 2015, 7:06 pm

the thread title wrote:
usa is mass-killing people and nobody cares

I don't care.