Elliot Rogers, The Killer and The Manifesto

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His kill count was not that great.

It seems he was likely on the spectrum, but this feature above does not seem ASD to me, but is likely indicative of another disorder more in the ballpark of psychopathy or narcissism.

I agree he had some kind of severe pathology going on that was completely outside the bounds of AS. He managed to pass a welfare check in a way that feels very NPD to me. Having the capacity to do that and come across as a respectable young man (or whatever it was the officer who checked on him said at the time) would take some serious sociopathy. Most autistics aren't that capable of keeping it together in the face of authority pressuring us for information, I don't think. I get nervous around cops (and other authority figures) when I haven't done anything wrong and don't plan to.

In the past year I have been thinking that prozac and some other drugs can and do bring out or enhance psychopathic features, so if someone is already on the psychopathic spectrum, the drugs can push them over the edge.
I think they can also push people who have detachment/dissociation into being a "proto-psychopath" or a more pronounced narcissist.

I have to admit that I am no fan of psychopaths, but I want to point out that the true psychopaths are born that way, so should we really have no pity for them?

I think that the majority of these people who "crack" and turn criminal are often proto-psychopaths who were eventually pushed over the edge by their environment or drugs.

As long as we keep looking at the individual in question for the answer to the problem, the actual problem that drives this will elude us. This othering of the individual is the same thing we did to the nazis after WWII. We would rather think that all the atrocities were committed just because there was a few "bad" people. Many works in psychology like the Stanford Prison Experiment proved this to be false, and that the larger system dynamic is what "creates" these problems.

My thought is that ASD folks would be much less prone to system/group dynamics, and that a narcissist may be more prone to them.

I think our society already rewards both psychopathy and narcissism, and it's very worrisome that we're giving so many people drugs that push them further in that direction.

I read Elliot Rodger's manifesto out of curiosity and interest because one of my obsessions is studying the minds of murderers and why they commit what they did.

I think that Rodger had ASD traits (struggling to understand social situations etc) but in my opinion, leaned more towards narcissistic personality disorder. He saw himself as superior to other people and demanded respect and awe from them without accomplishments and achievements.

Very true. When i was on paxil, all limits were gone.. like i was drunk all the time. I would literally say into one's face that he was an as*hole the moment i thought it without feeling anything. Normally you have a clear boundary where you keep thoughts to yourself, overthink the situation and then say somewhat politely that you dont like someone.. with paxil, i started to act like an as*hole.. all thoughts would come out of my mouth very fast.

When i started to quit taking the darn pills, i spent 2 weeks on my bed violently crushing my pillow as i experience anger... anger that i have never felt before. Almost like i was possessed.. a constant feeling of 'pickup a knife and stab everyone to death you see'

Depends. Some aspies start to turn the self hatred for not fitting in society into a superiority complex.

I agree entirely!

Narcissism isn't proto-psychopathy, it is a disorder on par with psychopathy and can be equally as dangerous. Narcissists when provoked have what is known as Narcissistic rage which makes them dangerous. Narcissism is
is considered to be part of what psychologists refer to as the "dark triad" of personality facets along with Psychopathy and Machiavellianism. The dark triad is the name for the psychopathic spectrum (although really it is 3 interrelated spectrums that interact with each other).
-Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.
-Psychopathy is characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callousness, and remorselessness.
-Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others; a cynical disregard for morality, and a focus on self-interest and deception.

Studies have shown an increase prevelance of dark triad behaviors since 2000. We don't know the exact cause, but there is probably many reasons.

We actually now know the gene behind the psychopathic trait, a variant of the monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A), however not all those with the gene become psychopaths. The trait carried in the gene can can be activated and deactivated. The genetic trait is thought to be activated by environmental conditions.
The psychopath is a person who has the trait continuously activated all their life and it causes visible neurological changes. However, it can be activated later in life (in America, these late bloomers are called sociopaths in professional literature.)
Studies have shown that between 30%-60% of the population have the gene (depending on demographic), most in unactivated or low activated form. So it is entirely possible that a popular drug could increase the activation levels of the gene to cause the increase in dark triad behaviors enough to cause the significant changes shown in the studies. The drugs of course, aren't likely to cause full-blown psychopathy in most people, but only exaggerate the problems of someone who already has a high (but still manageable) trait activation level and cause someone to "crack."

But with the amount of people with the gene, it is no wonder that society is formed as it is. The Machiavellian trait in particular is very interesting terms as far as how it contributes to society.

I don't think ER was a psychopath, he was definitely a Narcissist and probably of the fanatic (god complex) type.

Ive read and watched what remains of the videos and writings that Elliot left behind. He was obsessed, and in a largely unhealthy way. I think is fall into the spectrum has little to do with the level of detail that he expressed.

I read even that he was so obssessed with being better than everyone else, that he sunk 20,000 dollars into attempting to win the lottery (he already drove around in a BMW, he needs more money?).

It was less and less about his position in the spectrum and more and more about his ability to obsess.

He was very clearly NPD or APD leaning, even those his brand of Charisma didn't tend to attract people to him, despite his best efforts.

Thank you. Your post was very informative for me. I have been trying to learn psychology lately.

I think one main point, and someone made it earlier, is that he was ready to check out of life/society, and I think that is really the tipping point that should worry us all.

It would seem he got to that point by being born different inside a society that rewards conformity and punishes difference. He very much felt the "pressures" of this environment, and it drove him to desperation.

I think we should all be very concerned about this because most of us here are born different inside this same society, and experience much of this pressure.

Of course we are all different and handle different levels of this pressure in different ways, but the fact is that this system/structure is aggressive, so we have this situation where the pressure is always increasing. On top of that, many of us are being given these drugs could make the situation worse.

I think this is a situation that we all should be very concerned about. We autistics are very much in the cross-hairs here.

I don't understand how people are getting that elliot rodger was likely autistic from his manifesto, which to me could have been written by any kind of person.

I don't understand why people are still discussing a misogynistic, violent nutcase as if his life was somehow significant beyond the pain and grief he caused to the families and friends of those whom he MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD!

He's dead, people! Stop keeping his memory alive by endlessly discussing whether or not he was anything other than a hate-filled monster!

I wished you would give as much attention to his victims!

Murdered by stabbing:

George Chen (19)
Cheng Yuan "James" Hong (20)
Weihan "David" Wang (20)

Murdered by gunshot:

Katherine Breann Cooper (22)
Christopher Ross Michaels-Martinez (20)
Veronika Elizabeth Weiss (19)

Wounded and injured:

Megan Carloto (22), shot on bicycle
Antoine Cherchian, shot multiple times
Keith Cheung (21), struck on bicycle by car
Bianca de Kock (20), shot near sorority house
Patrick Eggert (19), struck on bicycle by car
Jin Fu, struck by car
Victor Garcia, struck by car
Elliot Gee, struck on skateboard by car
Christopher Hoang, shot multiple times
Mitchell Lyubarsky, struck by car
Bailey Maples, shot in the arm
Nick Pasichuke (19), struck on skateboard by car
Matthew Smith, shot multiple times
Aaron Zaglin, shot in the arm

THESE people deserve far more attention than what you are giving their attacker. Show some compassion, people!

I'll do what I want, thank you very much.

I wouldn't have thought you to be one to squash discussion unless it was something about metaphysical/religious belief.

I don't think it logically follows that discussion of one part of the problem takes away compassion for the victims.

It doesn't.

To a degree, I actually agree with Fnord (these very unusual events happen between he and I from time to time)
and it's not so much wanting to shut down the conversation as to see it in a wider perspective that has compassion for the victims, who were reduced from people who had meaningful lives to the singular status of just Victims by what the criminally savage Elliot Rodger did.

When I read someone posting here to the effect that "actually his kill rate wasn't all that good" I think this discussion strays into a territory that I don't want to be in or near, and which is just purely destructive, not constructive in any kind of way.

Same. One of the big reasons I am taking another break from WP. I'm not doing very well at it, but...