Another Killing Rampage - 5 People Dead

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trollcatman
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12 Mar 2015, 7:29 pm

Adamantium wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
In the United Kingdom, they do talk about "knife violence" and "knife crime" in much the same way gun violence is discussed here and there are calls for more control of knives, even kitchen knives.

You may jest, but it really can go that way. Weirdly, the UK is also a place with incredibly low penalties for many crimes. Criminals convicted of serious assaults and attempted murders routinely get very short prison sentences. It seems the goal of controlling the behavior of the law abiding is more intense than the goal of controlling the behavior of criminals.

It's very strange.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/knifecrime
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 51165.html


It's not that the UK has low penalties for crimes, your perspective is skewed because the US has ridiculously harsh penalties for crimes. They lock up more people than just about anywhere. Most other European countries also have less severe punishments than the US.


No, that's not it. I don't disagree that the prison-industrial complex in the US is hopelessly broken, not least by the excesses of the phony "war on drugs" that has been the thin cover for the ongoing "war on black people" at the state and local level.

But British justice is weird in it's own right and the defects of the American system do not somehow make the practices in Britain rational or fair.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-20397278

WARNING this next one is a horrific story of absurd British sentencing in a sexual assault on a very young child, don't read it if you might be upset by it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rdeal.html

The Judge said the young rapist "would have received 6.5 years if you were an adult" just before he let him off with no custodial sentence at all.

It's not the first time this judge has passed down a similar strain of weirdly weak "justice" --
https://www.change.org/p/houses-of-parl ... ts-go-free

And then there is this one:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-20397278

Apparently, "Unduly lenient sentence complaints are on the rise"
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23082737

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... nient.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... nient.html

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/07/10/co ... -to-death/

Still, I guess those victims were aspies so a slap on the wrist is a perfectly reasonable response </sarcasm>


That's not really unique to Britain, you'll find stuff like in other European countries too. Most of these cases are fuckups, not the way it is supposed to work. That one judge that thinks rape is "what boys do" is just messed up. In another case the prosecution failed to provide the evidence. Well, you can't expect a judge to convict people without evidence.
But it always surprises me that people in the US get extremely long sentences, and still they don't have less crime than European countries. It's just that this focus on punishment is not effective, people are not deterred by X years in prison, because their imagination can't even conceive of how long for example 5 years in prison is. The only way to deter crime is to make sure there is an economic perspective for everyone, make sure people with mental problems have access to treatment. Because you don't really deter people with harsher punishments. And if certain punishments don't deter people, then they are just a money sink for taxpayers.

For example, the murder rate in the Netherlands is 0.9 per 100,000 people, it's 4.7 in the US. When you think about it, you are probably better off committing murder in the Netherlands, because if you get caught you'll likely get a much lighter punishment. The murderer of Pim Fortuin (a political murder, he was an important politician) got out after 12 years. Fanatics are not really deterred by punishments at all. You can give the death penalty to Jihadis, it won't deter them because they want to die anyway. Same with suicidal people who do a school shooting or something similar.



chagya
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12 Mar 2015, 7:47 pm

I would rather take my chances against 4 knife thrusting crazies than one gun waving crazy any day of the week. These knife, rock and car analogies that people make to try and silence gun safety advocates are pitiful.



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12 Mar 2015, 7:56 pm

Who's trying to silence gun-control advocates?

I'm just trying to increase the influence of the Nanny State.



chagya
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12 Mar 2015, 8:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
Who's trying to silence gun-control advocates?

I'm just trying to increase the influence of the Nanny State.


In a society where the average IQ is <99 a "nanny state" influence has it's merits. "Nanny state", political correctness", "mainstream media", "race card" and all the other little "catch phrases" that people have to use to express themselves since original thought is such an abstract concept...

It is a nanny world. Always has been and always will by. Individuality and "freedom" are so blatantly cliche.

We are a spoiled, selfish, complacent culture. We are all being influenced, constantly, by everything and everybody. To believe we are all even capable of being free thinkers is delusional.



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13 Mar 2015, 7:18 am

The average IQ is *never* below 100, by definition. But people with an IQ of less than 100 (which is half the population) still manage to get by okay.



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13 Mar 2015, 10:46 am

chagya wrote:
I would rather take my chances against 4 knife thrusting crazies than one gun waving crazy any day of the week. These knife, rock and car analogies that people make to try and silence gun safety advocates are pitiful.

Gun "safety" advocates. :roll:

Silence them? No, it's more rewarding to draw them out into the open and rip them a new one than it is to silence them.


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chagya
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13 Mar 2015, 11:10 am

Raptor wrote:
chagya wrote:
I would rather take my chances against 4 knife thrusting crazies than one gun waving crazy any day of the week. These knife, rock and car analogies that people make to try and silence gun safety advocates are pitiful.

Gun "safety" advocates. :roll:

Silence them? No, it's more rewarding to draw them out into the open and rip them a new one than it is to silence them.


"you ripping them apart is nothing but your mind telling you they have been ripped apart. Your long winded, anal, OCD fueled rants are not fazing anyone. It is just you being annoying and belligerent. You seem to have this fantasy that your "intellectual musings cause people "butt hurt" and piss people off. You are easily dismissed, so don't flatter yourself with false accolades. Someone only need make their point, move on and ignore your predictable hissey fit



Magneto
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13 Mar 2015, 1:19 pm

If I was within a metre or so distance of them, I'd prefer to be dealing with one guy with a gun than more than one with a knife, because I stand a better chance of disarming all opponents in the first case.

I shall ignore the individual who clearly does not wish to discuss anything, instead choosing to dismiss their (in-thread) opponents.



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14 Mar 2015, 12:33 am

chagya wrote:
.
you ripping them apart is nothing but your mind telling you they have been ripped apart. Your long winded, anal, OCD fueled rants are not fazing anyone.

Must be doing something to you if you responded.

Quote:
It is just you being annoying and belligerent. You seem to have this fantasy that your "intellectual musings cause people "butt hurt" and piss people off.

YOu seem to know my handiwork. :D

Quote:
You are easily dismissed, so don't flatter yourself with false accolades. Someone only need make their point, move on and ignore your predictable hissey fit

Apparently I'm getting to you....

Image


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14 Mar 2015, 8:04 pm

chagya wrote:
These knife, rock and car analogies that people make to try and silence gun safety advocates are pitiful.


Silence you? Then we'd have to make up our own sh***y arguments to debunk, and that sounds like work to me. Take just now, when you mendaciously referred to gun 'safety' when everyone know you mean gun control, that saves me the trouble of painting you as dishonest, as well as demonstrating the weakness of your position, since you evidently dare not speak its name. Real time saver, that, much appreciated.

Try speaking honestly and demonstrating knowledge of the subject next time, those tend to be more persuasive than insults and sleight of mouth.


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14 Mar 2015, 8:17 pm

chagya wrote:
"you ripping them apart is nothing but your mind telling you they have been ripped apart. Your long winded, anal, OCD fueled rants are not fazing anyone. It is just you being annoying and belligerent. You seem to have this fantasy that your "intellectual musings cause people "butt hurt" and piss people off. You are easily dismissed, so don't flatter yourself with false accolades. Someone only need make their point, move on and ignore your predictable hissey fit


Got anything besides personal attacks? I've yet to see you display any particular knowledge or insight into firearms and their use/misuse in any of these threads, just unearned condescension and anger towards those of us who know what we're talking about.


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14 Mar 2015, 9:22 pm

chagya wrote:
... I would rather take my chances against 4 knife thrusting crazies than one gun waving crazy any day of the week. These knife, rock and car analogies that people make to try and silence gun safety advocates are pitiful... you ripping them apart is nothing but your mind telling you they have been ripped apart. Your long winded, anal, OCD fueled rants are not fazing anyone. It is just you being annoying and belligerent. You seem to have this fantasy that your "intellectual musings cause people "butt hurt" and piss people off. You are easily dismissed, so don't flatter yourself with false accolades. Someone only need make their point, move on and ignore your predictable hissey fit
Your responses are all very amusing. To bad there is no open season on red herring these days ...



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15 Mar 2015, 2:40 pm

And then you get cases like this...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/affluenza-dui- ... d=21259169


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15 Mar 2015, 7:57 pm

Protogenoi wrote:


"Affluenza" my ass. He killed four people and f****d up two others while he was drunk and driving a pickup. I'd toss his ass behind bars and throw away the key.


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15 Mar 2015, 8:34 pm

Raptor wrote:
Protogenoi wrote:


"Affluenza" my ass. He killed four people and f****d up two others while he was drunk and driving a pickup. I'd toss his ass behind bars and throw away the key.


The prosecutors are trying really hard to lock him up... but money talks.


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