Lessons from Universe 25

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John Calhoun did behavioral research on mice and rats for the National Institute of Mental Health from 1947 to 1984.

Universe 25 was a "mouse utopia" where residents could live free from predators with access to all the food and water they could need.

The Universe 25 habitat, capable of supporting 3000+ mice, was seeded with 8 (4 males & 4 females). Eighteen months later, the population peaked at 2200 (well short of capacity) before starting an irreversible and fatal decline.

So, what happened?

Calhoun concludes: (I'll underline the important bits)

Source --> (click)

Calhoun's research is often referenced in discussions on over-population. However, I think there's a lot more to it.

Calhoun concludes that Universe 25 failed, not because of over-population by itself, but because there was a lack of meaningful social roles for all. This resulted in widespread deviant behavior and a fatal level of social breakdown.


I think this effect could explain the behavior we see among certain segments of poor, urban populations. They have become so socially marginalized and excluded that there are few functional, social roles for many to fulfill. Hence, we see increased deviance (violence, family breakdown, substance abuse) as a result.

I think one extremely important takeaway for social welfare policy is that food and minimal material support is not adequate. We MUST find a way to help marginalized, oppressed groups integrate into society in a positive and meaningful way.

Exclusion and apartheid are cancers for society.

It's a matter of such populations finding their own roles and believing in them. Roles that are not destructive.

It's an oversimplification to say there are no societal roles for minorities living in the inner cities because they become drug dealers, gang members, in some cases, while others go on to find careers and move along. Gang members and drug dealers are societal roles, so is being a criminal.

It depends on the individual and what roles they choose for themselves. They have to want to find them and choose the harder path which requires getting up every day and serving others. That really is the toughest thing to do. It takes energy, time, effort. It's exhausting which is why you see deviant behavior. It takes less energy to be deviant than it does to be productive everyday.

My personal opinion is overpopulation of a species is never good and it usually ends in a massive die off. We HAVE seen that happen many times in the wild. Plagues usually end in disaster for the species that created it. Either they get killed off by humans who are the only species really capable of mass killing, or they die of starvation from lack of resources to support their great numbers.

I think we can, and should, do better than simply prescribe a vigorous program of "boot-strapping" (something that's physically impossible, by the way ) for marginalized populations.

How many people would actually make it with NO guidance and encouragement?

Is providing a bit of guidance and mentoring for these people too much to ask?

Many of then do what they do because they don't know any better--they don't realize there's another way.

I try to approach humanity in the same way Marcus Aurelius did (Meditations: Book 2.1):

Or to put it even more simply:


Jung said, "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being."

Everyone MUST build their own fire, but that doesn't mean we, as a nurturing society, cannot give them matches.

They are offered mentoring and guidance, it's just to some, gang banging and dealing drugs is easier than getting up everyday, controlling impulses, acting a certain way, exerting energy everyday. All that takes a lot of energy. The path of least resistance can be tempting so people go down it. If you are a thief, you get up, go out, steal, come home. It doesn't take hours of effort. There's no schedule to keep. This is why some become thieves.

Simple remedy. Stay in school, graduate, obtain college or some kind of secondary training or attend a vo tech if available while in school, then keep trying until employment is obtained. That is the way out of poverty and crime. Jobs are there, you just need to train for ones that are available, like medical, there's plenty of those. Law enforcement. Military. The jobs are there.

You choose not to focus on the ones who do find jobs and earn a living.

Oh, I didn't realize you were such an authority (and omniscient to boot).

Where did you get your sociology degree?

Seriously, to assert that everyone is "offered mentoring and guidance" and therefore we, as a society, can just blame the victims for their own bad outcomes is ludicrous and lazy.

You can do better.

Yes, John Calhoun's Universe 25 IS a valuable lesson, and interestingly in countries that are becoming vaguely ruled by social roles in work that have no connection with the product verses the work, in truly satisfying forager ways of sharing in social cooperation; the analogies in human behavior are clearly those one sees among the 'beautiful ones' in John Calhoun's so-called rat utopia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun

Young males in Japan are losing interest in the actual physical act of reproducing with the opposite sex. And males, in general, in South Korea are grooming themselves with the same cosmetics to look literally beautiful as women do. Both countries rely on the tech industry greatly for subsistence where the worker is often far removed from the actual product of work in terms of touch and feel in senses and emotions. And of course, folks are at the height of enjoying virtual reality electronic ways of play over flesh and blood connection, in those high tech countries, as well.

When work and play does not include the real flesh and blood social roles of human connection; trouble 'lies' ahead with or without the truth.

Humans and all social animals naturally seek social roles for survival; and when that potential is taken away, regardless if subsistence is plentiful or not; evolution apparently does not know the difference, whether that be rat or human, IN TERMS OF MISERY AND SUFFERING.

And yeah, one sees reflections of this in United States culture, where there are 'full forums' of males who are no longer aggressively pursuing women and instead complaining about the whole gender as something not worth pursuing; but the real deal is, the women do not want them as they are no longer, overall, evolutionary speaking, 'viewed' as good reproducing material, by the opposite sex, as they generally have become 'worms' who cannot defend themselves against other 'worms', in a nation that is growing softer behind screens than the rough and tumble evolutionary reality of survival.

Nature is our master; to understand 'her' innately, instinctually and intuitively and comply or go the analytical route and use what other masters of human nature gifted by mother nature do, is simply to fail in the real game of life, MORE LIKELY than not; it appears, from both the Universe 25 of the rats, AND IN A Universe each truly weak human
experiences, who loses their evolutionary social roles, AND APPEAL IN SOCIAL ATTRACTION TO OTHERS, IN no longer THRIVING.

Nah, this does not just apply to poor African Americans in urban areas; this applies the same to the white privileged upper class male; who sits all day in the bedroom or basement playing video games, OR BEHIND a computer at work, with no real social roles; instead of getting out there and finding a role with the natural gained physical strength and prowess to find a mate; which for MOST folks, is an innate, instinctual AND INTUITIVE requirement or life; OR pay the consequences to the 'piper who sings' the 'song of nature'.

And for people who THINK, with the more current epigenetic adaptations of one lifetime in modern written language, collective intelligence, and all the ways of making a living that are separated from connecting to other human beings; and THINK that's real life; they are sadly mistaken, in many cases, at least, and eventually do pay 'the piper' in terms of human chronic social stress, misery, suffering, disorder, disease, and potential earlier death from simply not thriving to put all this in one succinct phrase:

"Thrive alive; or do not; but to find the way that is evolved nature; is always; and will always be the overall, best way to go."

Universe 25, is a valuable lesson; humans evolved with rats from a common rodent ancestor around 75,000 years ago; AND are still genetically speaking, basically, still, the same social animal.

We have a prehensile thumb, making written language, collective intelligence, and all our twice removed cultural byproducts from evolved nature; however that does NOT MEAN IT IS SMART FOR survival, on a case by case, basis.

It just works, overall, so we do it; and rarely ask questions; no matter how much it hurts; or how much we hurt, and don't have a written language witting clue; 'cause we do not realize that culture CAN BE the enemy, same as Mr. Calhoun's experimental witting culture imposed on the rats.

So yeah; many humans are in an unwitting experiment where culture is Mr. Calhoun, and the humans are the
MODERN DAY RATS.

LIVE AND LEARN OR DO NOT; the rats did NOT have that CHOICE, IN one lifetime, through the collective intelligence of options; just like this.

Humans do; but the question is, will they put their really big boy or girl 'NATURE pants' on, and feel the truth of Nature, from within.

Nature is the real GOD; to listen to Mother Nature is TRUE animal intelligence, no matter if that comes in rat form or human form; we all come from the same star stuff, to paraphrase Carl Sagan, 'beautiful ones' or not.

And no doubt this has much to do, generally speaking, with the overall rising rates of Autism, when the often 'over-privileged' human becomes the 'canary in the coal mine', of 'Universe 25'.

White upper class or poor African Americans in Baltimore; it makes no difference; rats are rats and humans are humans with the same color blood, AND evolved need for flesh and blood social roles and socially cooperative flesh and blood connections.

I understand my human nature, so I thrive and can evidence that.

Before I did not; and in the long term it almost kills me, even in a fancy job, with no
real satisfying social role where humans ARE the goal; and the not the end product
of a spread sheet.

I look to evolutionary human history; to my Indian ancestors; and I find the role
of sacred clown/warrior/shaman, to 'fit my genes and shorts', just fine; and let the
naysayers cry out; THAT is old school all they want; 'CAUSE
old school baby, WORKS, in mighty fine ways;
and I've already evidenced how WELL IT WORKS
HERE, TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

AND TO BE CLEAR, back in 2013; the research
of John Calhoun that I am no longer allowed
to link here; per my blog analysis, for the
fear of moderators that I am
promoting myself, rather
than helping other folks;
is what in part,
leads ME to
recovery from 19 medical
disorders; all chronic social stress related.

I create my own naturally evolved social
role that I CAN do NOW and WiLL work
for ME; the rest of my life; to the chagrin
of the naysayers, both here and in
real life, down to my immediate
family, in some cases; but the
bottom line is THIS, AS
local 'SACRED CLOWN',
with a mix of 'SACRED
WARRIOR' AND 'SHAMAN',
in my little patriarchal town;
MY role may seem crazy, as the
dancing guy showing the hypocrisies
of the rest of culture and their sidewalk
ways of robot life; but I am the one who wins
overall, as i connect to the truly 'SMART' ONES AND
CONTINUE TO THRIVE AND SURVIVE ALIVE; TRULY THE
ANSWERS ARE WITHIN AND OUTSIDE IN THE INFORMATION
FREEDOM WE HAVE NOW; to move out of the box and move back
within human innate, instinct, and intuition can be TRUE GENIUS RATHER
THAN
A
UNIVERSE OF 25 OF
someone else's making.

http://dreamflesh.com/essays/clownpath/

http://dreamflesh.com/essays/warriorpath/

http://dreamflesh.com/essays/shamanism/

http://fractalenlightenment.com/25726/spirituality/the-path-of-the-sacred-clown-where-trickster-and-shaman-converge

And nah, of course, only a few 'chosen' ones of Nature, are cut out to be Sacred Clown, Warrior, or Shaman; but there are many other paths that work; the key though, is a path where a satisfactory 'touchy feely' product is produced that will make a difference in social flesh and blood sharing connections.

Before I eventually become 'a clown', after surviving the 'spread sheet wars' of five years of higher grade federal administrative positions; I work a job at a Military Bowling Center for close to two decades, where I connect and provide services I CAN touch with other flesh and blood human beings to the tune of hundreds of human beings a day.

Toward the second half those two decades, 'rising up' to Bowling Center manager; those duties eventually become replaced by computer duties too; and the farther I go away from humans, the closer I get to so called 'Autistic Hell', for me at least, and eventually close to death disorders produced by chronic social stress, in that administrative position from 'military hell'; aka as 'Autistic Burnout'; that I pursue as a real human disorder; that can produce a potential shorter human life; and certainly at least a long extended period of human misery and suffering.

I cannot directly link that here; but it is simple to find with a google search per 'Burnout on the Autism Spectrum', and 'Autism and the Behavior Sink Experiment'.

What else can I say; I do NOT wait for plan B, C, D, or F;

I make THAT happen with my own will.

If I wait for some other person's research project to cure me;
I will simply likely be dead; and not here to help anyone else;
clown or not;
dead is dead.

This is a great video that explains the issue in layman's terms;
that should be easy for most anyone to understand.



When society becomes a place where automation rules
and humans no longer need apply;

John Calhoun's EXPERIMENT BECOMES reality reflected in masses of folks
who are either in misery and suffering loudly or more quietly DOING IT IN WORDS,
on online forums like this.

African Americans are just fighting for survival; and using whatever mechanism is
available to survive in these urban areas, where poverty is at 33% among that
socio-economic demographic. The point is, they are still fighting for survival,
no matter HOW ugly that gets in terms of aggression and violence.

Giving up is NOT ANY better than that; however, beyond one's control,
in many cases, where humans no longer need apply to make a life,
PER SOCIAL ROLE.

The problem in the first place is humans have to APPLY for a social role;
instead of growing in one from the time of youth; like the foragers
we are naturally evolved AS, 'simply do', with a 'little help' from the
village; instead of frigging school and

MACHINES.

But perhaps, the greatest problem is the death of human empathy overall, growing to
this extreme, in research that shows empirical measures of college-age adult empathy
decreasing around 30 Percent, in the last several decades; and continuing to go
the way of the machine, instead of the full souled, hearted, and spirit expressed
human in empathic affective emotional response to others,
as well as cognitively learned and expressed empathy.

Single mother families rule African American Socio-economic demographics,
in urban areas, approaching 70 percent. It takes a village to raise a child
with proper and loving empathy; not a single parent alone; without
cooperative social help. And nah; throwing money at this issue
alone will not fix it; humans are not machines that CAN EVEN
BE REPAIRED, ACCORDING TO MODERN PSYCHOLOGICAL
RESEARCH THAT SHOWS LOVE NOT NURTURED IN THE
FIRST 2 YEARS OF HUMAN LIFE, CANNOT BE
REPAIRED BY ANY THERAPY KNOWN TODAY,
OVERALL. And No, I do not have the
answers, but from an innate,
instinctual, and intuitive
perspective, as well
as modern research
to help me out;
the problem
is clear, SEEING reality in other human shoes,
AS a child without either fully developed human
empathy OR no future in a social role to grow
from youth.

Going back to foraging, is obviously not a solution either;
But sharing and understanding is; however, IS CATCH 22;
AS WHEN HUMANS BECOME MACHINES, IN NO EMPATHY;
THERE IS NO ULTIMATE ESCAPE BUT HUMAN MISERY,
SUFFERING, AND A LONG TERM STAY AT THAT;
AS THERE are too many of us; to go extinct
anytime soon; so misery and suffering
IS NOW THE SAD RULE OF A SPECIES
WHO CHOSES TO DOMINATE
RATHER THAN
COOPERATE.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH;
in terms of social animal cooperation
BOTH THE 'EYES' OF GOD AND NATURE
THAT ARE THE SAME;
MAKES THAT RULE
REALITY THEN
AND
NOW.

PAY attention to Nature AKA GOD
or PAY the consequences of the
action of not even being
human to
begin
with, in terms
of social animal
evolution of what
it even means to
be a social
animal or
human social
animal in general;
with empathy and LOVE
MORE FULLY EMPLOYED.

There is plenty of opportunity for mentoring and guidance! Groups like The United Way and the Boys and Girls Club. All you have to do is get a yellow pages and look under social organizations or call 211. Why would you ignore the existence of a helpline like 211 in order to feed into the victim mentality?

Aghogday, you are forgetting the 17th century when men and women both wore a lot of makeup and powdered wigs. Both sexes wore silk, satin and lace and were quite pretty and tried to present themselves that way. When I see pictures, at times, it's hard to tell who is male and who is female. Both sexes are pretty dolled up and back then there were no television sets, radios, telephones or computers. To equate men looking more feminine to increase in technology is quite a stretch indeed. Go back in history and you will see. Look at the Romans! They wore togas and the men and women pretty much dressed alike. Men were vain like women, too.

What I think is, the breakdown in rodent society is due to rodent numbers, not the fact they have access to food and water because all those rodents together creates great stresses in their cns. It is very difficult for them to deal with large rodent numbers as individuals without malfunctioning their cns. That explains why they cannot function as a society. Their brains can only deal with a certain amount of other rodents at one time. They are being constantly overloaded and blanked out.

We have seen this over and over again in plagues or rabbits or locusts. They all swarm, there doesn't seem any rhyme or reason. They devour everything. They don't do much of anything else. Then a lot of them die. How can people deny that? They become a massive swarm with no mission except to devour and they do seem very panicked and basically dysfunctional. We have even seen the same results with rodent plagues involving mice. Don't know about rats because I haven't seen an example but I do know that overpopulation is never a good thing and is very destructive. People seldom like to own up to this reality.

And I suppose we should expect neglected children to access these networks on their own?

Is knowledge of 211 innate?

You would reach these kids through schools and social workers. We do not live in vacuums. We are not powerless.

What you're ignoring is that in your examples, the rabbits, locusts, etc, die because they exhaust resources. What Calhoun's research explains and what aghogday is posting about concerns societal dysfunction in the midst of plenty.

The destruction in these examples is completely social, not based on lack of resources. In fact, efficiency in producing resources in a big part of the problem here.

@aghogday

excellent video in that last post!

Seems like you're crayfishing now.

Since you think everyone should simply be able to overcome any obstacle on their own, why would we need a social worker?

Why not simply use a VERY small post-it note (we don't want to waste paper) with the numbers 211 written on it pinned to a bulletin board?

I mean, if the kids are REALLY motivated to change, they'll figure out what 211 means on their own, right?

The dysfunction is based on the fact they have so many rodents to deal with. It messes up their cns so they can't function as effectively as those who deal with less on a constant basis. Life in cities is supposedly more difficult because of this same phenomena so in spite of being in a city with so many people, socializing is ironically more difficult than a smaller town and it's harder to form meaningful relationships.

Having a role of some kind is very important for an individual's survival, depending on the role, it can enhance your survival or it can enhance your demise but if you are provided food and water and it's never ending, you pretty much have everything you need to ensure your species survival infinitely, assuming you are someplace that will stay the same forever without any natural disasters. Having food and water is NEVER a bad thing.

So, what are you basing this on?

Because Calhoun's -->40 years of research<-- suggest that what you are saying is not so.

Go back and READ my original post.

In universe 25, mouse society collapsed long before the colony reached capacity (2200/3000+) and in spite of the fact that they had plenty of food and water.

How do you account for that?

Because Calhoun says it was due to lack of social roles, not just CNS stress due to overcrowding itself. Where's your 4 decades of research?



And, if the failure of universe 25 was simply due to overcrowding, why didn't the colony rebound when sufficient numbers of mice died off?

Why didn't they recover when the population dropped to, say, 500?

Okay let me ask you this: WHAT kind of roles do mice have? What roles were they deprived of? They could obviously still reproduce that means yes, the mice could still experience parenthood. That's a role. The only roles they could have possibly been deprived of is foraging and to make up for that, you simply put the food in a different place each time. Tell me more about mouse roles, please.

And how do you know what is too many mice? Maybe 500 is too many. Just because it is not filled to capacity doesn't mean it's too many mice.

What you are telling me based on this man's research is, if given food and water, death is imminent but I don't buy it. Are people better off with roles, maybe, but with food and water, they can live through the generations. It is possible.