PhD failed application - what to do now?

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Swordfish210
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27 May 2015, 6:48 am

The last few months I have been applying to a PhD. I have two jobs but I managed to apply, do research for the proposal, write the proposal and do some networking in my spare time. Basically I spend all my spare time since the end of November on this and I made it all the way to the scholarship interviews. Unfortunately my interview skills are abysmal and even though it could have been worse on this occasion I was rejected and am unable to do the PhD without it.

This happened a few weeks ago and I am still clueless about what to do next. Somehow I feel I do not have the energy to apply for a different course but I do know that the job I have at the moment is not what I want. It drains me and forces me to live my life in a way I intensely dislike. (Having to share my living space, no pets and living in the city)

Is there anyone who can give me some advice?



MollyTroubletail
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27 May 2015, 6:55 am

Is there any official appeals process? Perhaps you could claim you were rejected due to a disability and appeal the decision? You shouldn't have your research invalidated based only on having abysmal interview skills.



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27 May 2015, 12:06 pm

What exactly happened? Did you fail the dissertation proposal defense? If this is the case, they should have given you specifics about what was wrong, so that you can fix those things to their liking and defend again.

This is fairly common in my field, sociology, and in some other fields in which I have PhD candidate friends, like engineering. Don't freak out about it. I know that's easy to say, but it really does happen all the time. Especially when people are working. It's like not passing the bar for law students.



Swordfish210
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27 May 2015, 3:50 pm

I am in the UK so it might be a different situation. I had my proposal approved and I was accepted into the program. However in order to get funding I applied to the university's scholarship program for which I had to do an interview.

I had expected them to ask generic interview questions and for them to let me explain the proposal followed by some questions. Instead they asked a lot of in-depth questions from the get go and it threw me which made me panic and forget everything. I could no longer explain my proposal well and their criticism was that they did not get the impression that I was sure what and how I was going to study. Considering my answers I do not blame them at all even though I did include it in my proposal. I just felt it spiral out of control.

There are no appeal processes and I have been advised (By the committee) to try it again next year and spend this time doing some initial research.

Thank you for the support :)


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SocOfAutism
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28 May 2015, 7:34 am

Ohh...I get it now. Can you get loans to finish? In the US, if you don't get funding, you can apply for government loans, which you pay back when you're done with school.

Will you get a chance to apply for funding elsewhere? Or to reapply for this funding at a later point?

And is there an office of people at your school where they can help with this kind of thing? Here it's called the financial aid office.



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28 May 2015, 8:04 am

Go back to the Committee explain you're autistic and have social trouble with interviews, ask them what sort of questions you should be prepared to answer next time.



Swordfish210
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28 May 2015, 10:43 am

I had applied to four scholarships and was invited to interview for one. Taking out loans to complete a 3-4 year study will result in me trying to pay it back for the rest of my life and is something I feel I can't do. The benefits would be grossly outweighed.

Going back and telling them I have AS sounds like making up an excuse to me. Even if I do I would feel I did not earn my place and I have enough issues with self esteem as it is.

I did ask for feedback from the interviewers and my proposed supervisor. They basically said what I posted above: I did not clearly state my intentions on how I will spend my time researching. This was something they asked about half way through when I had properly panicked and forgotten my plans.

I know I probably have some sort of case to make regarding having AS, but I can not see that working out at all and I consider the avenue at this point closed.



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28 May 2015, 10:46 am

MollyTroubletail wrote:
Go back to the Committee explain you're autistic and have social trouble with interviews, ask them what sort of questions you should be prepared to answer next time.


I agree with this, but with caution. It could backfire on you if they take it the wrong way though, as professors get many excuses from students on things, so they may see it differently. Be honest with them and explain exactly what you know of the project if asked. You may want to go one on one with each of them and ask what their personal advice is for you to obtain a PhD in your field. Just don't give up hope.

In my field of chemistry, students wanting to obtain a PhD must go though a similar process by defending your research project (after passing the cume exams) before you are classified a candidate. I think that this is equivalent to what you were just tested on. This is different than the final PhD defense process. Basically, you have to write a 25-35 page report (Research Proposal) on what you are working on, give it to the committee a minimum of two weeks before you give a formal presentation on it. Then they get to ask you as many questions that they would like to about the proposal, usually lasting hours behind closed doors. Mine lasted an hour or so, but I knew the material in great detail (too much for some of the professors' liking). My favorite question was to draw the molecular orbital diagram for a particular compound that I was proposing a synthesis of and then explain some of the electrical properties it should have based upon my diagram.

If you pass this part, then you are officially a PhD candidate in the program. If you fail, you are guided to a Master's Degree when you complete the project for the research adviser. It is a way to see who is capable of making it to the final PhD defense. The Master's Degree is built into the program as a means to give someone a stepping stone if they fail the Research Proposal portion. Have people passed the Research Proposal defense and then failed to get the PhD? Yes, it does happen, usually due to outside issues that prevent the research from getting done. Rarely does a PhD candidate pass the Research Proposal, then fail the final defense if they did all of the work correctly. Many times they fail at the writing stages of the dissertation (a major pain to do), not the actual final defense.



QuantumChemist
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28 May 2015, 10:54 am

Swordfish210 wrote:
I had applied to four scholarships and was invited to interview for one. Taking out loans to complete a 3-4 year study will result in me trying to pay it back for the rest of my life and is something I feel I can't do. The benefits would be grossly outweighed.

Going back and telling them I have AS sounds like making up an excuse to me. Even if I do I would feel I did not earn my place and I have enough issues with self esteem as it is.

I did ask for feedback from the interviewers and my proposed supervisor. They basically said what I posted above: I did not clearly state my intentions on how I will spend my time researching. This was something they asked about half way through when I had properly panicked and forgotten my plans.

I know I probably have some sort of case to make regarding having AS, but I can not see that working out at all and I consider the avenue at this point closed.


I understand the issue on the loans, as I had to go that route to finish my PhD. It is not fun.

Have you considered getting a Master's Degree first and then go on for the PhD? It does help you get prepared for the upper degree. Just an idea to consider.



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28 May 2015, 1:23 pm

I think you should follow their advice and apply again next year.
Since you already did the work for the proposal, it will less work to apply again.
I know it seems awful to go through it all again, but there is plenty of optimism as you were accepted into the program and only didn't make the final funding portion.
Next time, you know what more about what they want at these presentations, so you can be prepared to answer in-depth questions and even prepare for a drilling.


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Swordfish210
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29 May 2015, 1:13 pm

Thanks for the replies QuantumChemist, your field seems to work quite differently though. I already have 2 masters degrees (1 First class honours and one with a 8.01/10 average) and I would love to do another course but I feel I cannot reasonably justify the expenses after the loans I have already taken out.

btbnnyr, I do not feel like I can do anything but wait another year. However, at the moment I do not really have any faith that I will pass the interview stage next year. Perhaps I should keep it in mind while I look for a different job and look at the PhD again in a few months.

The effort is not the main thing that makes me reluctant. The anxiety interaction creates when I am contacting people is a huge strain. For every application I made to a scholarship or the university I had to request references which made me stress so much that they made me ill. To go through that again will require some recharging but being in a situation I dislike is only making it worse.



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29 May 2015, 2:21 pm

Yes, it is a good idea to take some time off from the application.
It is horrible to go through all the anxious steps of application again, but I think it will be worth it when you get to study your field in a phd program.
It is possible to improve a lot at presentations and answering questions by practicing.
Each time anyone in my lab has a talk for a job or thesis defense or conference poster, the professor makes the person present in lab meeting to practice, and I think this has helped me a lot in terms of communicating through both talking and slides and also being more confident and less anxious about presenting.
Even if there is no audience, you can pretend there is and practice your presentation and answering potential questions like the ones they asked this year.


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29 May 2015, 4:41 pm

Swordfish210 wrote:
For every application I made to a scholarship or the university I had to request references which made me stress so much that they made me ill. To go through that again will require some recharging but being in a situation I dislike is only making it worse.


It might help to think of references from the other side of the glass. It's an honor to be able to provide a reference for someone you have confidence in. I would consider it as one of the perks to having an opinion actually matters.

Be that as it may, you should still write a thank you note (or better yet, thank them in person) to everyone who provided references for you. Let them know of your situation and ask them if they would be willing to provide references again next year, since you'll be applying again. It's very unlikely that anyone will decline.

Hopefully if you have less anxiety about this, the process won't be so burdensome the next time around.