White guy kills multiple people in black church

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Dox47
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29 Jun 2015, 2:00 am

Fugu wrote:
I was merely condensing what you had said to highlight the contradictory nature of what you were saying. you literally said "guns aren't designed to kill" then went on to say "most guns can be used as weapons" but you've still neglected to list what other functions a gun has that don't involve shooting something with lethal intent which is the reason a gun exists imo.


"Lethal intent"? I don't know whether to put this one down to poor reading comprehension or poor thinking, or both, since target shooting, a major use of firearms, requires no such intent, nor does self defense, where the aim is only to prevent harm to oneself or another. I don't know how else to explain it at this point, if you're not getting it, it's either willful or hopeless.

Fugu wrote:
it was you who mentioned bows and knives first, and you're inferring I'm being irrelevant for replying? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ahh, another point for poor reading comprehension, as I brought up bows and knives as other items just as "designed to kill" as guns, and you responded by attacking their ease of use, which was not under discussion. The emotes only complete the self inflicted beclowning.

Fugu wrote:
]ok then, list things that you can do with a gun that don't involve shooting something that isn't at a target range.


When did I say guns were designed for anything other than shooting? It's you who can't seem to distinguish "designed to shoot" from "designed to kill".

Fugu wrote:
gee, perhaps that could have been reasonably inferred from the way you mentioned two terms I had just used in a previous post.


And the way that I addressed a number of terms and arguments people other than you had used should have tipped you off that I was addressing the thread at large, along with the fact that I didn't actually quote you or address you by name.

Fugu wrote:
now you're just being disingenuous, you mentioned several things I touched on in my posts which were immediately above yours, but who cares about context?


See above.


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Dox47
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29 Jun 2015, 2:01 am

Fugu wrote:
it must be really depressing to be so insecure that you need multiple weapons. my condolences Raptor.


Not as depressing as being so thoughtless that you substitute feeble personal attacks for debate.


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Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 10:24 am

Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
it must be really depressing to be so insecure that you need multiple weapons. my condolences Raptor.


Not as depressing as being so thoughtless that you substitute feeble personal attacks for debate.
honestly i've no more interest in seriously replying to raptor as he won't do anything more but post cheap shots and/or images from GIS.

also you telling me about personal attacks being bad when you're freely ragging on my supposed lack of reading comprehension is the funniest thing i've seen on these boards. thanks for that.



Last edited by Fugu on 29 Jun 2015, 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 10:30 am

Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
I was merely condensing what you had said to highlight the contradictory nature of what you were saying. you literally said "guns aren't designed to kill" then went on to say "most guns can be used as weapons" but you've still neglected to list what other functions a gun has that don't involve shooting something with lethal intent which is the reason a gun exists imo.


"Lethal intent"? I don't know whether to put this one down to poor reading comprehension or poor thinking, or both, since target shooting, a major use of firearms, requires no such intent, nor does self defense, where the aim is only to prevent harm to oneself or another. I don't know how else to explain it at this point, if you're not getting it, it's either willful or hopeless.
ok, i'm curious how you could defend yourself with a handgun without shooting it? it's not exactly a riot shield.
Quote:
Fugu wrote:
it was you who mentioned bows and knives first, and you're inferring I'm being irrelevant for replying? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ahh, another point for poor reading comprehension, as I brought up bows and knives as other items just as "designed to kill" as guns, and you responded by attacking their ease of use, which was not under discussion. The emotes only complete the self inflicted beclowning.
it's hardly irrelevent to point out that guns are far easier to carry around, conceal and use for self defense than both bows and edged weapons. you mentioned crossbows as well but there's no way you're gonna conceal a crossbow on the street.
Quote:
Fugu wrote:
]ok then, list things that you can do with a gun that don't involve shooting something that isn't at a target range.


When did I say guns were designed for anything other than shooting? It's you who can't seem to distinguish "designed to shoot" from "designed to kill".

Fugu wrote:
gee, perhaps that could have been reasonably inferred from the way you mentioned two terms I had just used in a previous post.


And the way that I addressed a number of terms and arguments people other than you had used should have tipped you off that I was addressing the thread at large, along with the fact that I didn't actually quote you or address you by name.
see below re context
Quote:
Fugu wrote:
now you're just being disingenuous, you mentioned several things I touched on in my posts which were immediately above yours, but who cares about context?


See above.



AspieUtah
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29 Jun 2015, 10:59 am

Fugu wrote:
...ok, i'm curious how you could defend yourself with a handgun without shooting it? it's not exactly a riot shield....

GunFacts.info wrote:
...Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers...."

GunFacts.info: "Guns and Crime Prevention" (2013)
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts ... screen.pdf

Ask yourself why law-enforcement officers possess unconcealed firearms. The visual deterrent is a huge advantage in preventing crime from occurring in the first place. This fact demonstrates that millions of U.S. citizens "defend [themselves] with a handgun without shooting it[.]" They do this year in and year out. In my own state, this knowledge is considered so important to saving lives that state law ( http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0320140513 ) protects the ability of an individual who possesses a concealed firearm to warn another individual that they are armed. The law protects verbal and visual warnings.


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Fugu
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29 Jun 2015, 11:20 am

AspieUtah wrote:
Fugu wrote:
...ok, i'm curious how you could defend yourself with a handgun without shooting it? it's not exactly a riot shield....

GunFacts.info wrote:
...Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers...."

GunFacts.info: "Guns and Crime Prevention" (2013)
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts ... screen.pdf

Ask yourself why law-enforcement officers possess unconcealed firearms.
because american police are militarized pretty heavily. also that's a biased source, try again
Quote:
The visual deterrent is a huge advantage in preventing crime from occurring in the first place. This fact demonstrates that millions of U.S. citizens "defend [themselves] with a handgun without shooting it[.]" They do this year in and year out. In my own state, this knowledge is considered so important to saving lives that state law ( http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0320140513 ) protects the ability of an individual who possesses a concealed firearm to warn another individual that they are armed. The law protects verbal and visual warnings.
you know what else would protect against getting shot? people not having so many guns.



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29 Jun 2015, 11:30 am

Fugu wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Fugu wrote:
...ok, i'm curious how you could defend yourself with a handgun without shooting it? it's not exactly a riot shield....

GunFacts.info wrote:
...Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers...."

GunFacts.info: "Guns and Crime Prevention" (2013)
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts ... screen.pdf

Ask yourself why law-enforcement officers possess unconcealed firearms.
because american police are militarized pretty heavily. also that's a biased source, try again
Quote:
The visual deterrent is a huge advantage in preventing crime from occurring in the first place. This fact demonstrates that millions of U.S. citizens "defend [themselves] with a handgun without shooting it[.]" They do this year in and year out. In my own state, this knowledge is considered so important to saving lives that state law ( http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapte ... 0320140513 ) protects the ability of an individual who possesses a concealed firearm to warn another individual that they are armed. The law protects verbal and visual warnings.
you know what else would protect against getting shot? people not having so many guns.

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Oh, I don’t care.

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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... population


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Raptor
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29 Jun 2015, 12:00 pm

Fugu wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
it must be really depressing to be so insecure that you need multiple weapons. my condolences Raptor.


Not as depressing as being so thoughtless that you substitute feeble personal attacks for debate.
honestly i've no more interest in seriously replying to raptor as he won't do anything more but post cheap shots and/or images from GIS.

I've seen nothing in your posts that indicates seriousness. Spewing hyperbole certainly isn't to be taken seriously. You're just not worth anything more than cheap shots......


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29 Jun 2015, 12:06 pm

Raptor wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
it must be really depressing to be so insecure that you need multiple weapons. my condolences Raptor.


Not as depressing as being so thoughtless that you substitute feeble personal attacks for debate.
honestly i've no more interest in seriously replying to raptor as he won't do anything more but post cheap shots and/or images from GIS.

I've seen nothing in your posts that indicates seriousness. Spewing hyperbole certainly isn't to be taken seriously. You're just not worth anything more than cheap shots......
then you must not be reading too hard as i've made plenty of posts with citations to back my points up. funny how you've yet to do that.



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29 Jun 2015, 12:24 pm

Fugu wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
it must be really depressing to be so insecure that you need multiple weapons. my condolences Raptor.


Not as depressing as being so thoughtless that you substitute feeble personal attacks for debate.
honestly i've no more interest in seriously replying to raptor as he won't do anything more but post cheap shots and/or images from GIS.

I've seen nothing in your posts that indicates seriousness. Spewing hyperbole certainly isn't to be taken seriously. You're just not worth anything more than cheap shots......
then you must not be reading too hard as i've made plenty of posts with citations to back my points up. funny how you've yet to do that.


And citations by virtue of being citations are always factual and totally unbiased, eh?
You're last "citation" in another thread that I actually bothered to read, the one about Heckler & Koch, was obviously written by a peacenik about peaceniks with a general beef with the armaments industry in general (go figure :roll: ). About all it did for me is make me think about buying another HK.


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Dox47
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29 Jun 2015, 12:40 pm

Fugu wrote:
also you telling me about personal attacks being bad when you're freely ragging on my supposed lack of reading comprehension is the funniest thing i've seen on these boards. thanks for that.


Ahh, it strikes again, as I tagged you for having nothing except clumsy snark to defend your viewpoints with, while I'm attacking your viewpoints while also wondering at your inability to understand what is being written, i.e. reading comprehension. You don't leave me many options when you so consistently misrepresent what has been said in such a way that I can't tell if you're simply not very bright, suffering from a deficit in that area, or are dishonestly attempting to "win" an argument by any means necessary. The ToS precludes me from fully exploring that question, so I'm stuck with pointing out that you can't seem to figure out what is being said and have a very poor understanding of the subject generally, along with an apparent fondness for fallacies.

Let me ask you again, what do you know about guns? I'm an accredited expert, Raptor has years of experience and a demonstrated knowledge base, AspieUtah backs his contentions up with citations; you make pithy comments... See the problem yet?


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29 Jun 2015, 12:41 pm

Raptor wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Fugu wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
it must be really depressing to be so insecure that you need multiple weapons. my condolences Raptor.


Not as depressing as being so thoughtless that you substitute feeble personal attacks for debate.
honestly i've no more interest in seriously replying to raptor as he won't do anything more but post cheap shots and/or images from GIS.

I've seen nothing in your posts that indicates seriousness. Spewing hyperbole certainly isn't to be taken seriously. You're just not worth anything more than cheap shots......
then you must not be reading too hard as i've made plenty of posts with citations to back my points up. funny how you've yet to do that.


And citations by virtue of being citations are always factual and totally unbiased, eh?
You're last "citation" that I actually bothered to read, the one about Heckler & Koch, was obviously written by a peacenik about peaceniks with a general beef with the armaments industry in general (go figure :roll: ). About all it did for me is make me think about buying another HK.
wow, you read one whole link. never mind the other ones, or the fact that you've posted 0. you keep calling people names, that'll be effective some day :roll:



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29 Jun 2015, 12:43 pm

Fugu wrote:
also that's a biased source, try again


Ad hominem, claiming that the source is biased (without anything but your less than trustworthy opinion to back it up no less) does nothing to defeat the claim being made, which would require actually confronting the argument being made, something you seem unwilling or unable to do.


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29 Jun 2015, 12:52 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
also that's a biased source, try again


Ad hominem, claiming that the source is biased (without anything but your less than trustworthy opinion to back it up no less) does nothing to defeat the claim being made, which would require actually confronting the argument being made, something you seem unwilling or unable to do.
it's selling a book on the front page, and the language used throughout the site and the report is partisan, hence it's biased. try again.



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29 Jun 2015, 12:53 pm

Fugu wrote:
ok, i'm curious how you could defend yourself with a handgun without shooting it? it's not exactly a riot shield.


AU already answered this partially by noting that simply producing the gun is usually enough to stop an attack, as I can personally attest to, but you're still muddying the waters by conflating "shooting" with "killing". If I hit someone with a bat because they broke into my house and attacked me, that I was "trying to kill them" or had "lethal intent" does not necessarily follow, as all I was trying to do was protect myself, not kill them; same with shooting someone in self defense. Just as an aside, the mortality rate on gunshot wounds is about 15%, so for something "designed to kill", apparently they aren't designed very well.

Fugu wrote:
it's hardly irrelevent to point out that guns are far easier to carry around, conceal and use for self defense than both bows and edged weapons. you mentioned crossbows as well but there's no way you're gonna conceal a crossbow on the street.


It is irrelevant when the subject at hand is what the item is "designed" to do, not whether its easy to use or concealable. If we were discussing the convenience factors of various weapons it would be germane to the discussion, but since we're not, it's just noise.

Fugu wrote:
see below re context

I don't think that word means what you think it does.


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29 Jun 2015, 12:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Let me ask you again, what do you know about guns? I'm an accredited expert, Raptor has years of experience and a demonstrated knowledge base, AspieUtah backs his contentions up with citations; you make pithy comments... See the problem yet?
Raptor makes pithy comments about liberals being sheep and posts images, AspieUtah is more levelheaded but posts infowars-esque biased sources and you like to cherry pick my statements.
I know that guns were designed to be weapons, to present lethal intent/a statement of force, not to be defensive.