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Children dressing in clothes of the opposite gender

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Ettina
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10 Jan 2016, 7:29 am

Jacoby wrote:
I don't think it would be right to send a little child to school to get relentlessly bullied, I only speak from my experience in a rough public school system but kids can be ruthless and unforgiving. Verbal and physical abuse, I've seen plenty and knew more than one person who dropped out before taking another day of it. You can punish bullies after the fact and everything else but that won't change the nature of children. Most places don't bus kids all around the city like my city did, most people are stuck going to same school as long as they live in one place so some "free spiritedness" could follow a kid until they graduate, I remember they use to always make fun of this refugee Serbian kid because he apparently pooped his pants all the way back in like elementary school. It's not right, it's not fair, it is what it is tho. Protect your kid, don't try to make a statement thru them. You want school to be as least traumatic as possible, don't paint a bullseye on their back.


As someone who was bullied for being weird, I have to say it would have been a lot worse if my parents had tried to keep me from standing out. Even if it had worked, I'd rather get acceptance from my parents and hate outside my family, than have my own parents tell me that being myself is wrong.



gingerpickles
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09 Jun 2016, 4:38 pm

I never really gave it thought.
I was not rigid on finding my son messing with my stuff or wanting to wear his sisters dress. Both my sons love hot pinks. Orange or Red. Black. One silver , the other gold. Velvet. Silk and opulent fabric( all my kids have sensory issues); My older son had a black Nutcracker collector edition Barbie he asked for. I raised him confident, calm and masculine (not "manly"). He is that way still even after my X had him for "make up time" (he was deployed a lot and .....trust fund is in control of custodian, not parent).

Girls clothes are more colorful, floral, pleasing fabrics and less constrictive (dress=kilt). My sons liking them doesn't mean they are transgender or possibly gay. Just means they like pretty things. I didn't hassle them over cosmetic tastes. My son learned cooking better, younger than my daughter. My youngest -not sure if he'll ever cook more than 1 minute microwave ramen. To be effeminate is gonna take more than just a dress and non traditional household role.


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SharkSandwich211
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23 Jun 2016, 10:08 pm

I have always liked stories like these. They are great examples of some of the silly dare I say stupid conventions that the majority of people subscribe to. It only becomes an issue to people when their own conditioning is challenged. For the young child that hasn't had that conditioning dumped on them yet, they are free to enjoy their own experience. I love when people have trouble with boys playing in pretend kitchens....what they fail to see in their shortsightedness is that 90+ percent of the professional cooking is done by men.



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23 Jun 2016, 10:25 pm

SharkSandwich211 wrote:
I have always liked stories like these. They are great examples of some of the silly dare I say stupid conventions that the majority of people subscribe to. It only becomes an issue to people when their own conditioning is challenged. For the young child that hasn't had that conditioning dumped on them yet, they are free to enjoy their own experience. I love when people have trouble with boys playing in pretend kitchens....what they fail to see in their shortsightedness is that 90+ percent of the professional cooking is done by men.


The difference is hierarchy. In a professional setting the chef is the master; in a domestic one the homemaker wife is subservient. I bet if they painted the play kitchens "stainless" and branded them with the names of famously successful celebrity chefs they'd sell like crazy marketed toward boys.


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Sweetleaf
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24 Jun 2016, 5:37 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Halloween maybe, the rest of the time you have to protect your kid from themselves. What we know as right and wrong doesn't change the nature of children. Clothes just cover your naked body, there are more important things to stick your flag down for.

Unless, of course, they are transgender. Or just want to play with gender roles. Or simply are so creative they can't be contained by this moment's rules for "boy" and "girl"...in which case you wouldn't be "protecting them from themselves" you'd be causing varying degrees of harm.

Just pointing out that there are trans people on these forums, and parents of trans children, too.


I don't think it would be right to send a little child to school to get relentlessly bullied, I only speak from my experience in a rough public school system but kids can be ruthless and unforgiving. Verbal and physical abuse, I've seen plenty and knew more than one person who dropped out before taking another day of it. You can punish bullies after the fact and everything else but that won't change the nature of children. Most places don't bus kids all around the city like my city did, most people are stuck going to same school as long as they live in one place so some "free spiritedness" could follow a kid until they graduate, I remember they use to always make fun of this refugee Serbian kid because he apparently pooped his pants all the way back in like elementary school. It's not right, it's not fair, it is what it is tho. Protect your kid, don't try to make a statement thru them. You want school to be as least traumatic as possible, don't paint a bullseye on their back.

We actually had a kid show up to school one day in a skirt and stockings in middle school, I think it was his first day and he was being purposely provocative as he also had long green hair but this caused such a commotion that they had to escort the kid out of the building before the end of the day and I never saw him again. I think somebody might of attacked him in the hall or something I dunno, like I said kids are CRUEL.


So people should conform to avoid bulling in effect still allowing themselves to be pushed around by bullies. Though on one hand kids are becoming much more tolerant of people not following gender norms...so perhaps its not a guarantee they'd get endless bullying. Just seems contrary to standing up to bullying if everyone just conforms as to not be harrased.


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24 Jun 2016, 5:51 pm

Quote:
In a professional setting the chef is the master; in a domestic one the homemaker wife is subservient.


I'm not subservient, thanks. :roll:



Jacoby
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24 Jun 2016, 5:57 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
So people should conform to avoid bulling in effect still allowing themselves to be pushed around by bullies. Though on one hand kids are becoming much more tolerant of people not following gender norms...so perhaps its not a guarantee they'd get endless bullying. Just seems contrary to standing up to bullying if everyone just conforms as to not be harrased.


All I can speak for is the school environment I came up in, I would consider it child abuse to send a little boy in girls clothes to the schools I went to since it was not a tolerant place in that regard and would be like sending a lamb to slaughter. Is that right? Of course not, but it wasn't a safe school environment for anyone so obviously it is not something they've been able to control. It was very poor and racially tense, I would say my public school experience was atypical and that there are probably much more tolerant places.



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25 Jun 2016, 12:41 am

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
In a professional setting the chef is the master; in a domestic one the homemaker wife is subservient.


I'm not subservient, thanks. :roll:


Ohmygosh I am so sorry!! !

I was stating that from the perspective of people who won't let their sons play with toy kitchens or their daughters play with Tonka trucks. It wasn't quite sarcasm, but there was some in there...I was in no way advocating that position. :oops:


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25 Jun 2016, 11:53 am

Oh ok, I see what you're saying now.

When I decided to try for a second child, I wanted to help my son (who was about 3) be prepared by getting him a baby doll. I found a nice one at a garage sale, but it was naked. Later, I was at another garage sale picking out a few pieces of baby clothes in which to dress it. The lady running the sale asked me about the size I needed or something, and I told her it was for my son's doll. It didn't occur to me to explain further because 1) I forget people are backwards hicks sometimes, and 2) I didn't know the lady so why should she care about the details?
Anyway, she sneered at me. Her lips pulled back in disgust and she walked away. I still bought the clothes (honestly it took me a while to process what was happening) and she was likewise rude during the transaction. How ridiculous. Play is for practicing - anyone who wants their son to be a good sibling or future parent should allow them to practice caring for a doll, or cooking, or cleaning, or any basic life skill.