10 year old child still in pull ups

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Hi All,

I am a 32/m on the spectrum dating a woman with a 10 year old son who is also on the spectrum. I absolutely adore her son, however he is 10 years old and is still in pull ups and still going to the bathroom in his pants. He is on the lower functioning end, however he is smart enough to work a computer (where he spends the majority of his time) and tablet, help his mom in the kitchen etc, I don't see why he can't figure out when it's time to go the bathroom. I think part of the reason maybe that his mom ( my girlfriend) coddles him a little too much. If he was my child, there would be consequences every time he went in his pull up such as no computer for 24 hours, and if he went during the 24 hour punishment period there would be an additional 24 hours.

This situation is very frustrating to me because he is not my child, and it's really not my place to say anything, however I am supposed to be moving in with her after the house I am living in sells, and I feel like I should have a say once I become a member of the household.

Another thing that frustrates me is the fact that he has wrap around services coming 3 to 4 times a week, yet they are not addressing the things that really need to be addressed like him going in his pants, him sleeping in his mom's bed (another thing that frustrates me), and not listening to his mom. ( he listens to other people, including me but he doesn't always listen to his mom) If they are not addressing these why are they there at all? Shouldn't they be helping him become more independent? I think my gf (who's not on the spectrum) likes having them around because she is lonely and enjoys the social interaction. Personally, I find them intrusive.

For the record, this is not a new relationship, I have been friends with her for 2 years, and have been dating her almost 1.5 years. I have been very understanding this whole time with her (she has MS) and her son, however things are starting to come to a head with me and I am afraid to tell her how I feel for fear of starting a fight.

Other people have told her ( like her mom and a couple friends) have told her that she babies him too much and she gets very angry when she gets told that.

So with all this in mind, does anybody have any experience with older children that are still not potty trained? What has worked for you and what hasn't?

Anybody have experience with wraparound services not addressing their child's real issues?

Also does anyone have any advice on how to broach this subject with my girlfriend without her getting upset?

I love her with all my heart, but this is getting to be very frustrating. I think she would be a lot happier once he is going to the bathroom on her own, not to mention her house will smell better

From what I was told when we had wraparound, they are not authorized to toilet train. That is a nursing function, not a therapeutic function. The bigger issue here is the son's noncompliance with his mother. If she is not consistent or is not able to positively motivate him to take care of his own toileting issues then he's not likely to improve - especially if she's coddling him.

Have you ruled out any medical issues that cause him to not be toilet trained ? Such as a leaky bladder ? If not, then this is the first thing that you would need to check / rule out, prior to implementing a rigorous toileting schedule.

I say rigorous because toilet training a child on the lower end of the spectrum can be a gut wrenching task. It was very hard for me to get my son out of diapers, partly because my husband - as you put it - "coddled" him. He could not bear to see his precious son "ambushed" in a bathroom and spending entire days inside, with his mother for a "jailer". It was incredibly frustrating for me because when I DID get the odd day off or became incapacitated with migraines, Dad would let him slide, and it would be a Herculean task for me to get him back into a toileting routine again when I was back on the job. It was a wonder that my marriage survived the toilet training - I honestly was prepared to kick my husband out as he just would not get on board for a long time. Finally, the head of the agency that provided ABA services for my son had to call him in and have a talk with him about the dire importance of working with me on getting our son out of diapers.

My husband is still not 100% committed but is more on board especially as our son improves. Some days, he still sneaks in pull-ups from the store and puts DS in them, especially if we are visiting friends or going on a long road trip. I tolerate the occasional back-sliding - especially when we are visiting - but don't stand for our son in pull-ups every day. What I am saying is that you and your partner BOTH need to be on board and TOTALLY committed to toilet training the boy. This is going to be really hard if you are the only one committed to getting him out of diapers because you know / realize how important it is for the child to independently use the bathroom. If her son goes to school or if you get in-home therapy, then you can have the staff talk to her about this. She just may take it more seriously if they - as opposed to you - tell her to start getting him out of pull-ups.

I don't know what your wrap-around can and cannot do, but back when we lived in our old home and got respite, we were told that they can take a child who is already toilet trained to the bathroom (especially on a preset schedule) or they could change diapers as needed (or on schedule), but that they don't really have the training needed to teach a child to independently use a bathroom. That is a job for school or therapy staff, not a respite provider. Occasionally, you may get someone who works / has worked in a school setting and has the expertise to toilet train a child, and you can ask for such a provider, but it's not a guarantee. The onus to get your girlfriend's son out of his diapers is squarely on your shoulders.

So you have to convince her to work with you and get him toilet trained, or you have to tell his school / therapy team to talk to her to get her to start toilet training her son. She may or may not agree with them in principle, but may work on it, nevertheless, if the professionals told her to do so. At least that's what happened in my case, and all's well that ends well.

Good luck !

That would be psychological ABUSE (no question) if you did that to him.

You're already a sort of step-parent to him, and I know already that most step-parents are abusive to their step-kids (animal thing and that).

Obviously you're an NT because if you "had the gene" as I call it you would not be judging the boy so much and react in the way that you do.

I'm an Aspie, and at age 2 3/4, when *I* was clearly NOT ready to toilet train, I had my younger sister born (early '69). I guess I didn't "fuss" too much to my Mom and Dad back then because I clearly still needed my babyhood time.

Of course, to some, 10 yr. old in diapers is not right.

I've read and seen tv news accounts of step-parents literally killing their step-kids because they didn't go to the washroom in the way that he/she wanted.

My advice? Leave him alone, and if you don't like it that he's still in diapers, please do us a favour...and find another gf ... one that suits you more.

I hope that boy's mother drops you like s**t.

wow really dude, psychological abuse? Taking away privileges from a child?

Most likely, taking privileges away from a child would not help. I am not sure if he goes to school or not, but ABA methods sometimes calls on practitioners and parents to withhold preferred reinforcers and only deliver them when the child voids on the toilet. I personally dislike this approach, and had to stop giving my son access to his favourite YouTube videos when we first began toilet training to increase the odds that he would void in the potty as opposed to his underwear.

Needless to say, although this sounds - prima facie - very solid and scientific, in reality it rarely works that way as our children are not creatures of logic, but of emotion. Before you implement any procedure, punishment or reward systems, be sure to consult a qualified professional to find out what will, and what will not, work, especially if his mother is not on board with toilet training her son.

What? Just when did taking away privileges become child abuse? Man are times changing because I guess I am doing what would be considered child abuse now that wasn't when I was a kid because I also take things away from my son like no TV and video games until after he does some school work. I say things like "You can watch TV after you do your school work" just like it was suggested in a parenting magazine five years ago about saying no in a positive way to avoid tantrums.

I just googled "taking away privileges child abuse" and experts still say it's fine to take away privileges. One says to not take them away for too long. But how long is too long? I had lost privileges for a week the most and I have had to earn them back sometimes.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_spanking-gr ... 3657191.bc

http://come-over.to/FAS/DisciplineTricks.htm


It tells you how to do it but lot of the results popped up about spankings mostly and other child abuse, not about taking away privileges.

I think you need to have a discussion with your girlfriend about the issue. Find out what/if she's tried in the past to potty train him. Find out whether she would be open to trying your idea. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea to me, btw, though that doesn't necessarily mean it will work. Even if it doesn't work, though, it may still give you new insights that could lead to an idea that will work.
Personally, my kids (one NT, one ASD) couldn't learn to use the toilet until we took away the training pants and put them in regular undies. Pull-ups don't make it uncomfortable to mess yourself. Taking a pee or poop in regular undies and seeing/feeling/smelling it run down your legs is an entirely different experience. One that most kids will try their darnedest not to repeat, especially if you reinforce by making faces and telling them how gross it is.

Have you talked to your GF about this? I don't know either of you, or the boy, or your situation - but what I do know is that if a child is on the autism spectrum - anywhere on the autism spectrum - things that are easy for most parents are way, way, harder and more complicated for a kid on the spectrum.

There are many parents here whose adult children are in diapers; it is not uncommon on the lower-functioning end of the spectrum. Sometimes it has nothing to do with willingness, sometimes it has to do with not being connected to the sensory information your body gives you when you need to go, or with GI issues that are very common co-morbidities to autism. This article may give you an idea of how complicated it can be http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/2010 ... ve-up.html

I also know, when it comes to "minding" a parent - often, kids on the spectrum "hold it in" for strangers because they are afraid of them. They often show their worst behavior to their parent because that is the one person they feel safe around - I know that was the case in our family. Something to think about: if you are going to be a step-parent to this child, you will know you have been successful if he behaves his worst with you, as well.

I think whether or not taking privileges away is psychological abuse is about context.

If the child has sensory problems which make them unable to tell when they need the toilet, taking privileges away for something they can't control would be every bit as abusive as taking privileges away from an ill child for vomiting or a wheelchair user for not being able to climb stairs.

We don't know whether he would understand that the punishment and behaviour are linked, so it may be unkind and unfair.

We also don't know what the skills the child is learning in wrap around care are (or whether this service is essentially respite for mum).

My 5 year old nephew has severe autism (and is very much coddled - but when the specialists have mentioned it, the family take it as a compliment) and there are a great many things that therapies target. Toilet training is much lower on the list than other things.

That is a very good point about context. I have heard stories about parents just taking stuff away from their kids just to take stuff away like they will get their kid something they want just to take away. But that quits working because the kid just quits caring about their items and when given a nice gift, they know it will just be taken so they don't really see it as theirs and not really care. I also read a story about a nine year old who was putting all his toys in trash bags and taking it all out to the garage and his mother asked him what he was doing, he said "Throwing all my toys away because I know you will just take them." The mother didn't even care.

I know my mom would sometimes take away my Barbies or my bike but she never did it just to do it. I am sure parents don't want to do those things but they have to because it's part if their job and they have to find what works for their child. I know I don't like to punish my child but I do it because I have to.

I don't know if severely autistic kids connect punishment to their behavior but if they can't help their accidents, then I agree it would be abuse to punish them for it. But I think it's pretty common for severely autistic kids to have toileting issues, even one severely autistic member on here wore them and lived in some group home and there is another member here who I think said wears pull ups and he is also severely autistic. It's mostly sensory related because they cannot sense when they have to go but even some people who are at the higher end have this issue too. I am sure ones who are at the higher end can learn to go at certain times before they actually have to go so they won't have accidents.

^^ this. Context maketh the difference.

This is why I asked OP if his GF had ruled out medical reasons as being the reason for the child's inability to toilet train. If there are no underlying medical (or sensory) issues, then a child can be TT-ed. On the contrary, if there are real medical reasons that he cannot learn to use a toilet, then trying to TT him regardless would be inappropriate.

More info needed from you, OP.

There is another issue to consider when contemplating implementing punishment or consequences. If the child is incapable of demonstrating the desired behavior, punishment/consequences are wholly inappropriate. This happens sometimes with younger kids and potty training. The parent assumes because they are X age, that they are capable of controlling their bowel/bladder when it may not be physiologically true. I do not know if this is a concern for a 10 year old, though.

I am sure that revocation of privileges may seem like abuse from a kid's perspective, but it's not. It's not like anyone is suggesting taking away a necessity, like food.

Actually, it is a good gauge for me of what my kids are really capable of. If I take away something they love and they continue to fail to do whatever it is that I want them to do, it is a pretty good sign that they are not capable of whatever it is just yet. It's also sometimes a good indicator of just how aversive a situation is. One time my son was refusing to do something that he is wholly capable of doing. When I said to him, if you don't do it, you will lose screen time today, he said "that's OK. I'll give it up for 2 days if I don't have to do it."

I think that you and your girlfriend need to have a serious talk about the expectations and parenting views that each of you have, before you move in.



I slept in my mom's bed until I was about 12 years old. It didn't hamper my development/independence in the slightest.

An older child sleeping with their parent(s) is not inherently bad or unhealthy -- it depends on the child and family.

What incentives does he have to go on the toilet, and what steps have already been tried if any?!?

I would be looking at aspects like that before jumping straight to 'consequences' that he may or may not understand.

Also of course you need to get on board with your partner first too otherwise it will cause acrimony like it did for us. I am sure your partner would also like to have her son toilet trained also, but how it is done needs to be agreed on.

Kudos to you for coming to this place to seek advice there is a lot of experience here. Mine is mostly unsuccessful, but at least I can tell you what hasn't worked!! !!