10 year old child still in pull ups

Post Reply New Topic

What incentives does he have to go on the toilet, and what steps have already been tried if any?!?

I would be looking at aspects like that before jumping straight to 'consequences' that he may or may not understand.

Also of course you need to get on board with your partner first too otherwise it will cause acrimony like it did for us. I am sure your partner would also like to have her son toilet trained also, but how it is done needs to be agreed on.

Kudos to you for coming to this place to seek advice there is a lot of experience here. Mine is mostly unsuccessful, but at least I can tell you what hasn't worked!! !!

Do you even know what the REAL ISSUES are? Let me illustrate with a image from the Avatar movie.
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Hallelujah_Mountains


You goal of potty training the boy is like the Hallelujah Mountains in the movie. Yes, those mountains look great and lofty, but they just can't happen, for the very simple reason that mountains can't float in the air. Real mountains sit on solid bases, not empty bases.

Bill Gates wearing a diaper is still Bill Gates. It drives me nuts that parents of autistic children would even bother to worry about their children wearing diapers or pull ups. Toilet training is about the least important thing for children on the spectrum. Intellectual development should be the main focus. You'll be surprised that once the child is intellectually developed, how many of those "sensory issues" disappear all by themselves. Don't turn the lives of these children upside down. They have a different path of development. I'll post more in the future.

You build the base, you'll have your mountain peaks. You don't build the base and want to solve the issues in 5 minutes, you ruin the child's life and your own life. It's your choice.

Interesting observations and assertions, Jason.

I doubt any parent here wants to solve their children's issues in 5 minutes. Most of us here have learned the hard way that raising an autistic child is like running a marathon, not a sprint. It's just not "quick and easy".

Can you provide any references or citations to back that claim that a child's sensory challenges disappear once a certain level of intellectual development is reached ?

Thanks.

Anecdotally, this has not been the case for us. We had issues with late toilet training, and they were independent of intellectual development.

We did have a very Laissez-Faire attitude also b/c I was afraid if I pushed too hard we would have worse issues and honestly, the timing for us had more to with the fact that after awhile it bothered our son more to go in his pull up than to hold it in.

In fact we ended up having the opposite issue b/c he would hold it in when we were out and about b/c he did not want to use an unfamiliar toilet. For us it was sensory issues and rigidity issues, and it had zero to with intellectual development. He understood what was expected but could not overcome those obstacles until he was ready.

I am not sure how much "training", that does does not address core causes, helps overcome those obstacles. It helped with things I did not care about like the school pushing him to pee standing up instead of sitting down --- but not for anything substantial in our world.

To me, it makes sense that a child who has a sensory interest (as opposed to an aversion) to sitting in a soiled diaper or rigidity issues with changing clothes or something like that, when combined with an indifference to peer/social/parental pressure, it is not so simple as to wait until the flowers of intellectual reasoning have flowered. Will it make it easier to communicate what you want the kid to do? Sure. But if that is not your main obstacle, I am not convinced it would work. I think it is maybe a necessary but not sufficient condition, if that makes sense.

To my mind it is a combination of physical ability to execute the process, understanding the process, and wanting the outcome either b/c of sensory discomfort, peer pressure, parental approval etc. or some cocktail thereof.

Hope you are genuinely serious. Since you say you have more than 5 minutes, I will elaborate.

I don't know how else to explain to people. I don't think anyone out there in the whole world understands autism better than I do. So excuse me for my attitude first. To me, autism is a solved problem. It's not even a hard problem, among all the intellectual problems I have to solve in life. I have long moved on to solving other problems. As I have said, I will post one concrete case soon enough. As you may have realized, I don't do quick postings. My postings usually come with diagrams/pictures and video clips. It takes time to prepare.

Whether other people choose to listen or not, it's none of my business. My priority is with my children. I am one of the few parents here that don't need to ask for any help on any issues regarding their children. My children are smart, happy, verbal, and in the case of my daughter, very social. I can't be happier with my children.

Since it's 15th anniversary of the case of Elián Gonzalez, let me re-iterate what Janet Reno said 15 years ago: "Parents have the right to raise their children as they see fit." Parents have great power. But with great power comes also great responsibility. The decision you make for your children is your responsibility and yours only. Right or wrong, you will live with it for the rest of your life.

I don't get confused about the many manifestations of autism. I have a very clean model about autism. Autism to me is one single issue with one single solution. That's the difference between having a model not not having a model. Without a model, what people do is single-bit machine reflexes, and they then get confused by the many faces of autism. With a model, you get a coherent picture and derive coherent solutions, for all the manifestations of autism. To me, the kids are perfectly fine. The problem is with the adults. Adults are the ones with behavioral problems and intellectual disability. Sorry to say that, because that's exactly where I was, before my son was 2.5 years old. You fix the adults (myself included), the kids develop great.

Meanwhile, you probably have missed two of the major messages I have posted recently.

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=291076&p=6722852#p6722852
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=293342&p=6781799#p6781799

Yes, to read my postings, it takes about 2 or 3 weeks to understand them. Hope you have the time.

regards,

I am leaving the rest of this post alone, b.c I am really trying to be a kinder, gentler ASDMommy, but this^^^ Really? Wow.

This is not a thing to wave around like a badge. It is more likely to perceived as hubris as opposed to mastery. Or perhaps as insecurity and an intense need to be thought of as an expert.

It is great (I guess) that you feel like you need zero help with your kids. I tend to come off as a know-it-all at times, myself (without meaning to) and I think that is common with people who have issues with rigidity. (As I do--and I think you do too)

It can be really challenging to recognize that there are other paths and they are just as good and maybe better than your own. In that context, being willing to ask questions and look at other paths is a strength and not a weakness.

It would be pretty awful if asking questions was interpreted in an unproductive way and discouraged people from asking them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. This would apply to your assertions here and elsewhere on the other threads, too. Your reference is yourself ?

Please show me the extraordinary proof that there is only one "clean" and simple model of autism and only one solution to this "problem" ? What is your proof that sensory challenges abate with intellectual development ? Please direct me to scientific, peer-reviewed articles in reputed publications that back your assertions that *all* children on the spectrum are visual learners ? Finally, what is your sample size on which you base these claims ?

Just because you have two "smart, verbal kids and a social daughter" does not mean that your "model" works across the board for all kids and that other parents are "ret*d" because they won't make videos for their children !

Your assertions are a mix of some truth - such as reading being a pathway to speaking in some children with ASD and some children on the spectrum being visual learners - a good 'E' for Effort and full of essentializing autism.

Your support for your argument is solely that you are one of the few parents here who don't need to seek help regarding your children, because they are "smart and verbal" (as if you had any choice in the matter or any extraordinary influence on their development). You take credit for Nature and then slam other parents with unflattering names in a forum meant for parents of children on the spectrum to meet and talk about how they may best help their offspring.

You, sir, are "extraordinary" (and I don't mean that in a positive way).

Eikonabridge,

I've read your posts, some of what you say has more than a ring or truth to it and is well thought out, but some of it IMHO is so far off base that it makes me question if you understand what Autism is or what ASDs are. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following:

Autism(ASDs): an observed set of criteria/"autistic behaviors" resulting in a diagnosis.
Medical Causation: what is actually causing the abnormal (or not NT) brain development to occur, which shows up as autistic behaviors.

When I try to understand the above, I look at the most extreme ends of the spectrum - a person who has a syndrome which is proven to cause ASDs (Rett, Fragile X, Trisomy 21 or "Down"), these people are greatly impaired in contrast to people who have lived/struggled with a relatively normal life up until a middle aged AS or HFA diagnosis. Clearly, people on these two ends of the spectrum do not have the same medical causations, but still receive ASD diagnosis's. It's also clear that treatment(s) (if needed) in whole or in part must address an individual's ASD, and a one-approach to every kind of ASD simple cannot be applied.

Eikonabridge, in one of you post you stated:

“Autism is not a disease/defect/disorder/disability. It’s simply being different. It’s a different life-style, a different way of growing up. Every single “issue” is solvable. These children have some of the finest brains of the world. These children are totally problem-free…”

“I don't get confused about the many manifestations of autism. I have a very clean model about autism. Autism to me is one single issue with one single solution.”

It seems you do not recognise that there are people with ASDs whose causes are proven genetic disorders/syndromes or the problems that come with their medical diagnosis’s. Can you please explain to me how your approach to treating your children and their ASD(s) would not take into account/be different from other children who have one of the “other many manifestations of autism” or if someone was using your model to treat your ASD when you were a child? (yes, I’ve read many of your other posts where you have stated you’re on the spectrum)

As a parent of a 3 ½ year old boy who has a moderate to severe ASD diagnosis, I’m very interested in how your model works and if there is anything I can learn from it that could benefit the development of my son.

Even thought I may disagree with some of your opinions, I’m very happy to see another parent so active/caring about their children’s development. It’s nice to see. But it would also be nice if you understood that every parent and their children may not be in the same situation as you and yours and your "model" might not apply, especially when it's not readily available to be used/discussed/proven.

Golly, mister, if I buy your book can my kids be perfect like yours?

Friendly reminder in the spirit of moderation:

A couple of posts here are over the line or right on it. Please bear this in mind as discussion continues.

I think it is important to remember that there is a wide range of experiences when it comes to autism and autism parenting - and there is an awful lot of very good information collected here on these boards, from a wide range of different kinds of parents - the majority of whom seem to think along the lines of supporting neurodiversity and leaning away from the idea of a "cure" (unless by "cure" you mean finding ways to keep children from suffering without trying to change who they are.) There are all kinds of different kids represented, also - all over the spectrum, all different ages - some are even adults, but all have parents who are concerned enough about their children to post here.

Welcome, eikonabridge. I skimmed through your links and posts, and I can see you've put a lot of thought into how you parent your children. You may not be aware how your post appears to other parents: the reason you are getting a strongly negative reaction is that, as written, your post implies that other parents have not carefully thought through how they parent.

If you read through the posts stickied on the top of the board, you will find that the large majority of posters here are very, very thoughtful, and are probably more in agreement than not about how they put parenting into practice.

I don't think I said anything negative at all, so hopefully you didn't mean my post. I'm quite interested in what eikonabridge has to offer.

Not at all and not to worry. I am sorry that my imprecise note caused you any concern.

Specific comments that I had in mind:



This thread is full of interesting information and it's very good to see the diversity of viewpoints here. I think momsparky's views on the clash of these perspectives are insightful. It's all OK and to be expected, but let's not personalize it, please.

His mother should take him to a specialist.

My friend who is an adult has this problem, however he has been assessed by medical experts they did a bunch of tests and he really can't either control or sense it.

Put your frustrations aside, this requires a measured approach.

Ok, this may be shocking to some, but what would he do if he were bare-bottomed? I know it's sensitive because of the age of the child and the fact that a boyfriend is involved, but mom could try this by herself. Would he eliminate where he stands? Would he notice that he was going and make a different effort? That might be a good test of his self-awareness of the issue. If he hides to go, or better yet, heads to the bathroom, then you know that he can sense it. My children potty trained late and still have accidents, but that was what I used to measure their readiness. They had no bottoms at all on for a really long time (in the house only, of course), so that I could get them to the bathroom quickly when it was that time. But I didn't start to try until I saw that they were themselves noticing that they had to go and looking for options (hiding behind the sofa, potted plants, etc. it really was pretty gross, but we survived!) Good luck!

pddtwinmom that is an interesting idea.

Sort of less extreme equivalent of spike in the middle of the steering wheel instead of an airbag. This is only used an example as you wouldn't seriously do that, as there are more hazard beyond your own doing, and practically it wouldn't work. But his has been used as an example, of encouraging awareness rather than safety people can take for granted.

Personally I still suggest getting a medical opinion first. There is no point doing training without know what awareness capability there is.