10 year old child still in pull ups

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pddtwinmom that is an interesting idea.

Sort of less extreme equivalent of spike in the middle of the steering wheel instead of an airbag. This is only used an example as you wouldn't seriously do that, as there are more hazard beyond your own doing, and practically it wouldn't work. But his has been used as an example, of encouraging awareness rather than safety people can take for granted.

Personally I still suggest getting a medical opinion first. There is no point doing training without know what awareness capability there is.

As a theoretical physicists by training, I can only wish other people have gone through the same training I've had. In the "renormalization" of quantum fields (or in the study of the so-called "critical phenomena"), it is well-known that the underlying "true" mechanism is irrelevant. The other day I was looking at a video about genome mutation loci talk given by a professor at Stanford. Yeap, autism manifestations can be triggered from a large variety of causes. That begs the question: so why hasn't anybody realized that this is a "renormalization" phenomenon, just like in the case of quantum fields with self-interaction? The detailed microscopic explanations of the mechanisms that trigger autism can be very varied, just like string theory, p-branes (pronounced as "pea brains", you've gotta admire the sense of humor from those theoretical physicists), or other exotic microscopic theories can all lead to our standard model.

If I have to put a word to it, I would describe autism as a "meso-scale" phenomenon. The detailed micro-scale causes are largely irrelevant. (Notice that "irrelevant" and "universality" are common jargon in the study of renormalization of quantum fields and critical phenomena.) So the key take away is: autism is a meso-scale thing.


Correct.


I disagree there. It's a meso-scale issue, with a meso-scale solution. Sure, I am open to other approaches, if you have a safe-enough way to burn out some excess synaptic connections in certain types of autism cases. But interfering with our neurons systemically sounds scary to me. I don't see it happening in our lifetime.


I am well aware of all that. With a meso-scale problem, you deal with it with meso-scale tools.

By the way, I never for one moment think of autism as a medical condition. I take it as something intended by Mother Nature, all along. Mother Nature is not always nice, though. There are people with Fragile-X, or Down Syndrome, etc. Fragile-X has some other issues, autism manifestations are just one component. You deal with the other components as necessary. But for autism component, I just don't see how it is different from other autism cases. Besides, there are dissenting opinion as whether Rett and Fragile-X are at all linked to autism:

https://spectrumnews.org/news/reclassification-of-rett-syndrome-diagnosis-stirs-concerns/
https://spectrumnews.org/news/fragile-x-symptoms-dont-add-up-to-autism-studies-suggest/


For a person that has studied the whole renormalization thing in quantum field theory like myself, the keyword that comes to mind is "universality." If I dare to make the comments I make, it's not because I just invent it out of thin air. It's because I see it from another angle, from things that I have learned in math/physics.

As for parents, yes, I am well aware that all parents have the best intentions. I am organizing a video workshop for a few mothers in my area, at my place, for some close friends. Yeap, mothers would do anything, I know. They deserve my admiration.

I am not sure if you are aware that this phrase, while clearly intended to be supportive, is actually insulting. It implies that "all" parents don't know what they are doing; in addition, "mothers would do anything" comes off as paternalistic and belittling to the actual work that parents (who are both genders) do.

You seem to be able to learn to look at things from your child's perspective; those skills apply with adults as well.

You mean "maternalistic," perhaps. Because that's my wife's sentence. Just to clarify. And I don't feel belittled by my wife in the slightest. Your have your opinion, I have mine. You have your free speech, I have mine. You get personal, I don't.

Regardless of whether you used your wife's words, you used them, yes? Own them, then, and do not blame them on your wife. One can be female and internalize paternalistic thoughts, by the way. Regardless, own what you say.

There is nothing MomSparky said that was personal. She also, as you do, has her opinion. I have been moderating mine: You, just FYI, get as personal as anyone; you just use different tools -- mainly dismissiveness of what others contribute and an overestimation of your own profundity.

Edited for syntax

Sorry, Jason, you get more than personal. You are very insulting and belittling of other parents here, as EVERY post you make refers to other parents as "intellectually disabled" and "moronic" and as having "behaviour problems". You also seem to think that you are right, because you have "smart, verbal " kids, while the others are all wrong "because they have to ask questions about their kids on this forum".

Don't you think these are insulting comments to make on a parenting forum ???

This is not paternalistic unless you miss the context of the sentence "I am organizing a video workshop for a few mothers in my area". Which since you quoted it I would have thought you had read?

To Everyone:

Please, if you find Eikonabridge disrespectful (intentionally or unintentionally) or anything else, just please don’t post anymore. I don’t want this thread locked, if there is even only a small chance Eikonabridge can add something of value to my son’s therapy.

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To Eikonabridge:

What you’re saying is there are other factor(s) at play in individuals, and those factor(s) cause a variety of other issues, but each and every individual has the same single “autism”.

That’s a very big statement, especially since every mental health professional that I’ve talked with and every therapy that I’ve researched all indicate the same thing: with a syndrome or single gene disorder (depending on which one(s)), there is a limited possibility of recovery (not meaning a cure for autism, but the ability for a child to gain effective back on forth communication/socialization) or a probability of living independently. These other factors compound/complex the overall a-typical development of the brain, yielding a more profound or impaired form of Autism. At this point, I would have to agree with this, as I have yet to see any better explanation of what causes a-typical brain development that yields autism(s).

If one considers one of the absolute worst cause of abnormal brain development (that I can think of anyway) - a person born without vision and hearing - an ASD diagnosis could be applied due to extreme problems with socialization/communication/repetitive behavior. Or a better way of saying it, a person with this medical condition simply could not socialize or communicate with other people as their lack of these two senses does not allow their brain to interpret the world like someone who was born with vision and hearing. By your rational/logic, your model would apply in this most extreme case. I just can’t see how anything could help fix/solve or reasonably improve their socialize or communicate impairments. [To anyone who knows/loves a person who has this condition, I mean you or them no disrespect, I’m just applying this kind of a-typical brain development to a “single model” treatment theory for autism.]

Lastly, you haven’t provided anything for me to use or consider for my son’s therapy. All of what you have said, is like a song-writer making their lyrics so deep that what they’re trying to say becomes meaningless to everyone but themselves. Anyone can have the best idea in the world, but the idea is useless if that person cannot convey it to other people in a reasonably understandable way. Hopefully, you can explain your model in a practical way so that a parent can apply it at home with their child who has ASD.

(If you don’t want to display your model on this forum board, please PM me it so that I can review it – all I’m trying to do is help me and my son communicate.)

Thanks,
BB400guy

You are always free to take your discussion to pm. I don't see how policing what other people can say or write on this thread helps our community.
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Ever heard of someone called Helen Keller ? Or Laura Bridgeman ??

Moderating:

It doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. Elkonabridge needs to learn to express his thoughts without belittling other members. If it goes on, the thread will be locked and a warning will go to Elkonabridge.

I am 100% confident that Elkonabridge is intellectually capable of expressing the same ideas in a less inflammatory way and without belittling other members. That's the only way to keep doing it in this thread.

I appreciate the value of this discussion to you, bb400guy, but if Elkonabridge can't moderate those expressions you may have to carry on the discussion by PM.

All I was trying to say was some poster's "issues" with Elkonabridge seem to stem from his prior posting on other threads, so if some find his comments harsh or belittling, then why post negative comments back at him (be the better person). A need of some to retaliate against some guy on the internet shouldn't outweigh the need of the O.P, myself or anyone else who reads this thread if it should in fact aid, even in some small way, our ability to communicate with/better understand our children's needs. I'm not trying to start anything here, but it seemed like this is where this thread was heading, and it shouldn't, so that's why I simply asked (implied) for no more negative comments.

We've been pretty consistent with commenting on what his posts have been here, on this thread, aside from a few tangential references.

I get where you are coming from, but it is not about being the better poster or not being the better poster. It is about correcting misinformation and statements that demean people.

On a public forum that means what posters say is subject to peer review, as it were. If his arguments make sense, they will withstand that type of inquiry.

If you want a private conversation with him then PM him.

The OP of this thread was attacked. There was disagreement with him on his views in THIS thread.

In any case, the need of these individuals to speak their minds is on par with your need to police everyone else on this forum, in particular this thread. Your discussion has nothing to do with the OP's request for feedback on how to toilet train his girlfriend's 10-yr-old son. Your options are to stop hijacking this thread and taking your discussion to pm, or to start your own thread with the announcement that, although it is on a public forum, your discussion is a private conversation between you and Jason.

Thank you.

I re-read this entire thread, IMHO at no point did Elkonabridge attack the O.P. or anyone else. His posts did come off as him having a very big ego or "attitude" in which he apologized in advance for. Acting like a superior know-it-all does not equal being abusive, it does however make a person unpopular as is being demonstrated here.

My discussion/posts clearly have everything to do with the O.P. asking for help with toileting his g.f.'s son - both our son's are not toilet trained and nonverbal, most likely due to child-parent communication difficulties. I haven't heard my son speak in over 2 years and is the only toddler in this daycare class still in diapers - I'm trying to help him at 3 1/2 years old so that he's not 10 or 35 and still in the same developmental stage.

If Elkonabridge can offer something to aid us in communicating, then toileting and verbal communication could improve, along with everything else associated with communication problems. I would hardly call understanding, addressing and possibly treating the root problem as hijacking a thread.

As for me "policing everyone on this forum, in particular this thread." This makes no sense and is just an attempt by you to start another random argument - it doesn't need to happen. I hope this thread is re-evaluated and the posts by members who are acting negatively/aggressively towards others are removed.

If this was any other kind of random forum (sports/hobbies/etc) I wouldn't care and you can all argue amongst yourselves, but this is a forum that is used by many (me included) to help our loved ones. So please WP members, put some thought behind your actions. Choose between maybe a new tool in our toolboxes to help our kids or your own personal axes to grind? That should be an easy decision.

PM or start a new thread ---then you will be the original poster of that thread.

Edited to add: By adding to the discussion about the other poster, you are actually aiding the thread in being off-track, despite wanting the opposite.

If you want to refocus the group, start your own thread, and the whole thing reboots.

If you are mainly interested in one particular person's thoughts (which is fine) then PM him.

If you want to advocate on his behalf, you can do that, but then people are going to respond to you, and the thread will continue off-course.

Edited to add: Here is the other poster's commentary on toilet training by the way (minus the Avatar thing) I am copying it for your convenience, but the take-away is he doesn't think it is important. His posts after that were pretty much about his system, and tangential to the OP's original question. If you are mainly interested in his communication model, then that is probably better suited for PM.


Here you go:

"You goal of potty training the boy is like the Hallelujah Mountains in the movie. Yes, those mountains look great and lofty, but they just can't happen, for the very simple reason that mountains can't float in the air. Real mountains sit on solid bases, not empty bases.

Bill Gates wearing a diaper is still Bill Gates. It drives me nuts that parents of autistic children would even bother to worry about their children wearing diapers or pull ups. Toilet training is about the least important thing for children on the spectrum. Intellectual development should be the main focus. You'll be surprised that once the child is intellectually developed, how many of those "sensory issues" disappear all by themselves. Don't turn the lives of these children upside down. They have a different path of development. I'll post more in the future."

I’m glad you re-posted this part, I think you are misunderstanding what he has said and taken offense when there is simply nothing here that is offensive. Elkonabridge is using a metaphor to get his point across that if a child's development is not ready for toilet training then a parent shouldn't try make that child use the potty before their ready for it. And that parents should focus on the development steps leading up to toilet training.

Your goal of potty training the boy is like the Hallelujah Mountains in the movie. Yes, those mountains look great and lofty, but they just can't happen, for the very simple reason that mountains can't float in the air. Real mountains sit on solid bases, not empty bases. This means being able to potty train children would be great but it just sometimes doesn't happen because children aren't yet developmentally ready to learn how to use the potty. Once children's foundational skills are built up, potty training and other skills become easier to learn. There's nothing offensive here, it’s actually the same thing our O.T. said about our potty training concerns.

Bill Gates wearing a diaper is still Bill Gates. It drives me nuts that parents of autistic children would even bother to worry about their children wearing diapers or pull ups. Toilet training is about the least important thing for children on the spectrum. Intellectual development should be the main focus. You'll be surprised that once the child is intellectually developed, how many of those "sensory issues" disappear all by themselves. This means Elkonabridge is frustrated that (in his opinion) parents are not understanding that if a child can't do something, that some developmental steps need to be taught to that child before he/she should be expected to do it. There's nothing offensive here.

Don't turn the lives of these children upside down. They have a different path of development. This again is a metaphor comparing an upside down mountain to teaching something to a child with ASD and expect them to learn it before they are development ready to do just that - either of those things can't happen. Elkonabridge didn't attack or say anything offensive here either.

Elkonabridge, please PM me your model.

I’m not responding to anymore negative or aggressive posters – I’m done. Again, I hope this thread is reviewed…