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Araial
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23 Oct 2015, 1:17 pm

There is a lot of anti-police sentiment in America lately, and police officers are getting killed left and right.

I know that some police officers did unthinkable things to other people, and I understand if people hate those officers (even though I don't SUPPORT hatred). But I know that the vast majority of police officers are normal, good people who just want to go home to their families at the end of the day.

What are your thoughts about this new wave of anti-police mess?


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23 Oct 2015, 1:29 pm

Unfortunately, I don't think the vast majority really are normal, good people who just want to go home to their families at the end of the day, though I don't doubt many are. And if they are then there's so much corruption ingrained in our justice system and police force it cancels out most of the good they do. Also for a long time police have been targeting vulnerable groups and minorities....its just more public lately but it's been going on a very long time so people do have reason to be pissed off.

I don't support hate...and I don't think extremism such as groups trying to just kill/harm all cops would solve anything at all. But to act as though cops in general are the innocent victims in this is just as bad since it ignores the corruption and unjust behavior among the police. Also much of the time they will get lesser charges for the same crime as an average citizen....or aren't charged at all, if they are citizens shouldn't they face the same consequences rather than having lesser ones like some special class of people.

Also not entirely sure its accurate to say police officers are getting killed left and right....I think I have heard of a couple outright murders of police officers recently...but its not like they're all getting picked off one by one.


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Lukeda420
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23 Oct 2015, 1:44 pm

^^ yeah this.



0_equals_true
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23 Oct 2015, 3:06 pm

I think there problem you have with policing is not so much individuals but the lack a governing principle from which to base a modern force on such as Peelian Principles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

There are problem with recruitment and training, particularly choosing candidates that are patient/calm under stress, intelligent, law abiding, working for the people rather than for themselves.

There is a problem with community engagement, police have to be trusted.



Araial
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23 Oct 2015, 3:10 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
I think there problem you have with policing is not so much individuals but the lack a governing principle from which to base a modern force on such as Peelian Principles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

There are problem with recruitment and training, particularly choosing candidates that are patient/calm under stress, intelligent, law abiding, working for the people rather than for themselves.

There is a problem with community engagement, police have to be trusted.


I agree. Without adequate community engagement and well- trained law enforcement, this country is going to go to heck in a handbasket REALLY fast.


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23 Oct 2015, 3:11 pm

Araial wrote:
I agree. Without adequate community engagement and well- trained law enforcement, this country is going to go to heck in a handbasket REALLY fast.


This country has been doing that for a while now....


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Araial
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23 Oct 2015, 3:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Araial wrote:
I agree. Without adequate community engagement and well- trained law enforcement, this country is going to go to heck in a handbasket REALLY fast.


This country has been doing that for a while now....


That's true. It's really sad...


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23 Oct 2015, 3:40 pm

to respond simply, no I do not feel sorry for police officers.

becoming a police officer is a channel through which people obtain power over others, and these people didn't choose to become social workers or teachers or even politicians for a reason. I'm not suggesting that police officers are bad for society in theory, but in practice, the system takes in these already power hungry people and trains them irresponsibly. I don't commend violence however I do think it is important to question authority and make them question if their authority can protect them from citizen backlash.



0_equals_true
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23 Oct 2015, 4:25 pm

On a counter argument I thought of starting a topic "f**k the police?"

I can to some extent understand people's lack of trust in police for somethings especially when they are abusing their positions or incompetent, however in some cases I think the anger has nothing really to do with the police, just the police is the first target they can think of.

Also I tend not to buy into the whole "everything is going down the pan" spiel, becuase this is often unsubstantiated.

In most developing countries crime is decline over centuries. There is whole load of academic data that debunks the perception of moral decline.



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Oct 2015, 5:12 pm

You need Batman.



RhodyStruggle
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23 Oct 2015, 10:37 pm

I come from a family with a long tradition of working as police. So when I say that I firmly believe that the only good cop is a dead cop, you should know I'm not merely being flippant, and grasp my full meaning.


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blauSamstag
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23 Oct 2015, 11:11 pm

I feel sorry for the police because they are placed in a position and trained to behave in a manner where they do bad things, and may have to live with the consequences of the unconscionable actions they may commit in pursuance of the job they have been ordered to perform.



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23 Oct 2015, 11:29 pm

the chickens come home to roost, you reap what you sow, things like that

there can't be "good cops" if the laws are unjust, if the system is corrupt, it's a profession that naturally brings the cruelty out of certain people as we know people do when given authority over another human being without accountability and ownership of their actions. I'm sure a lot are decent people who love their families and think what they are doing is right but just following orders has been judged as not a valid excuse, I am sure there were some nice SS officers as well. These cops care about themselves only, they advocate for stricter laws/sentencing and fight against all accountability for their actions.

we know how many police are killed in the line of duty every year, they make sure to remind us constantly but guess what one of the only stats the FBI does not keep? How many people cops kill every year.

good cops should not follow orders or quit

Our Drug War has turned our police from Mayberry to a fascist paramilitary force that occupies our streets.



0_equals_true
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24 Oct 2015, 5:16 am

Jacoby wrote:
there can't be "good cops" if the laws are unjust, if the system is corrupt, it's a profession that naturally brings the cruelty out of certain people as we know people do when given authority over another human being without accountability and ownership of their actions.


Whist that is has some truth it is not cops that make the law, so time spend fighting the police could be better spent holding politicians to account.

Not all laws are unjust, and not all police want to be working on the war on drugs.



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24 Oct 2015, 5:21 am

Another reason why we have stupid laws is actually down to us. Stupid laws a popular becuase of pre-conceived notions.

There is lack of education in the value of due process, this is combined with incorrect idea about what the problems are.



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24 Oct 2015, 7:50 am

I don't.
It's not just America, anti-police sentiment is everywhere, and in my experience, for very good reason. I'm confused by the odd modifier used in the above posts, that many police are good because "they love their families" or "just want to go home to their families at the end of the day."
What difference does that make to their professional conduct or the positive Vs negative impact of police in general?
In my experience unfortunately policing attracts power hungry thugs with insecurity issues who want to persecute others, not people who genuinely want to be of help to others. That or those who seek a legitimate reason for violence, dominance and cruelty, the sort of candidate also likely to present for military service in several countries (again, I have direct experience with.)
I agree with seaweed - those who really want to help are the paramedics, social workers and councillors, rehab therapists, doctors, etc. The police are quite frankly the last people I call. I certainly don't promote hate either - I stick with distance and uncooperation as far as police are concerned.


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