The Married Aspie Cafe Thread (discussion of marriage, etc.)

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kraftiekortie
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25 Jul 2016, 7:29 am

Congrats on the kid!

That's something that might be on my "bucket list" sometime in the future.

There's a side of me that feels like I would have benefited had I had a kid when I was younger.



PuzzlePieces1
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27 Aug 2016, 2:46 pm

I'm new to the forum and I'm a married Aspie. The marriage itself is not really that difficult because we always discuss things and we never fight. The only problem I really have is understanding how to be as supportive as my wife needs me to be. She suffers from mental illness and she recently lost her job so I have to take care of her while also being our main source of income now. She blames herself because we had depended on her job for our health insurance.



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20 Jul 2017, 5:41 am

My wife is everything, I have no idea how I could manage without her. I don't have any friends really, not that I want them particularly, my wife and children when they lived at home have always been enough for me. I am a disaster when it comes to organising and planning. I forgot things all the time and find managing my diary for work really stressful. My wife has put up with so much from me, all those times when I have talked over her , misunderstood, made unwise decisions, been blunt or rude to people we knew and I just didn't get it.

And she has stuck by me for 27 years....wow


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ladyliss
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22 Jul 2017, 7:09 am

Hi everyone.

I'm NT, but struggling to understand separation from my (undiagnosed, probably) high functioning ASD husband. I think the relationship is done, but there are some things about it that still deeply confuse me, and I'm here to see if someone can kindly help me see it from his point of view. I'll put my questions here, but please tell me which area of the forum to post in if there is somewhere better.

Okay, basic background. We have two kids, and have only just separated. The main recurring arguments for us were who looks after the kids, how we schedule our time, the details of how things should be done, and the lack of "relating" in our relationship (that one was mine, lol).

My ex has had a very warm relationship with our older daughter (2.5) since she was about 1 year old. Before that age he found her very difficult (she was). He said things like "she doesn't give anything back", which I found mystifying at the time but now put down to the fact that toddlers are probably a lot easier for him to read than babies. Our younger daughter (11 months) is just now passing to the magic age that he finds "workable" for looking after her.

Our relationship, from my point of view, has been gone for a long while. We met, we fell in love, he was incredibly attentive and affectionate and interested, and then we moved countries and he was overwhelmed, withdrawn and avoidant. I put it down to depression, we came home, he improved, we got married. But pretty much by the honeymoon, I felt like most of the time he was irritable, preoccupied, and ignored me. We went to counselling. Little changed. We had our first daughter. He couldn't look after her because he couldn't cope with the crying. I took it on, thinking that it was just because she cried a lot (she did). Then something confusing happened once she turned one...

He got affectionate, interested, and warm WITH HER. Which is lovely! But it also showed me how deeply unaffectionate, disinterested and cold he was with me. I had gotten used to it, and thought he was unable to be warm. But then I saw, he was able to have what I considered a warm relationship, just not with me.

Things got slowly worse. I said that I needed more from him. I got anxious and depressed. I said that I couldn't continue with the relationship as it was. I went to counselling myself. I started pointing out the things he did that caused me to feel so unloved. And nothing changed. It was like he heard it, but was unable to do anything about it, and wanted me to stop bringing it up, please, because it made him feel really bad about himself.

Somehow amidst very little sex, all initiated by me, we had a second unplanned baby (very fertile?!). This added a lot of stress to the equation, and this time, because there were two, I was no longer willing to do all of the childcare until she reached the magic age of one. He couldn't cope with looking after two. I insisted that we get more help (babysitter, anything!) so that I could have some time off. He insisted that I be within ten minutes of home at all times, so that I could come back "in time" if our little girl was crying. A few times he broke things when I didn't answer my phone or come home quickly enough. He insisted that we (aka, me) look after the kids at all times without help, and sort of passive aggressively resisted my plans to return to work using daycare. Our relationship was really deteriorating, and finally, I asked him to move out.

Once he finally realised that I would actually end the relationship unless things changed fundamentally and immediately, he started saying that he wanted "the family". Which I understand on one level (of course I wanted the family to be together too), but on another level it seemed REALLY MYSTIFYING. Because if he wanted the family to stay together, the one, obvious (I thought) thing to do was to work on our relationship. But I never could see any progress on any of the things that weren't working in our relationship. To me, it seemed like:

1. He wanted the FUNCTION of our relationship (family together), not the relationship itself.
2. He wanted me to stay for that function, but not to be with me in any way I understand.
3. He expected me to stay for these reasons, and was actually suprised that I wouldn't.
4. He either wouldn't, or couldn't, do the things that would actually enable me to stay.

He said that I can't change him. He said that deep down, he's afraid that he's incapable of relationships. He asked me to break up with him, almost like he was asking to be 'let off the hook'. He said that he needed it to 'not be his fault'. He said that he loves me, and always will, and that he has been trying so hard and is so upset that I can't see it (and when he says that even I felt terrible that I can't see it, but I literally couldn't see it). He said it's like he was trying to start a car for all those years, trying and trying to get the car going so that he could come and see me using the car, but he couldn't start it. I didn't know what the trying even was, and kept asking him to get more help through counselling, but he DID NOT want to open up 'our problems' to third parties. He said he know our problems were, in fact, his problems.

So. Finally to my questions. I have accepted the relationship is done, but I still wonder...

WHY is it that he can be warm with our daughters, but not with me?

WHY could he not understand that we had to keep our relationship together to keep the family together? (And yes, I did explain this).

WHAT was he doing, when he says he was trying? I know you can't read his mind, but perhaps you can relate???

WHY if he is so attached to keeping our family together, did he resist outside help in attempting to do it?

WHAT does it mean when he says he loves me, if the way that he loves me looks so very different to the way that he loves our daughters?

I once told him that he should imagine how our girls would feel if he never hugged them again (he's very affectionate with them). This was to help him understand how I couldn't cope with the lack of our relationship. He said "oh", in a sad way, as if he was picturing how sad our daughters would be if he never hugged them again. And this is what confuses me. If he "gets it" for them, why doesn't he "get it" for me? Or does he get it, and is he unable to do anything about it? And if so, why?!

Long introdution, but there is my struggle :)

Can you help?



nutinmuch
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21 Aug 2017, 3:26 pm

ladieliss,

I must apologize, the replies that I have written in my head were probably much better at explaining but would have been hard to write out linearly.

I'm undiagnosed, my wife is the NT. I have two kids, the youngest is diagnosed (We had him diagnosed based on my self-diagnosis). It's really hard to get an adult evaluation, working on it.

My wife and I married in our early 20s, we moved across country right after the wedding so I could attend college. My wife is the reason why I have any success. Our move left us isolated from family and friends, I think this helped us bond. I say this only as a possible explanation why we're still together. We're not a success story, we're dysfunctional and we bicker. We can yell at each other but no one else can. I have a deep admiration for her, it took me a long time to get my ego out of the way and realize just how lucky I am. I am far from the greatest person and I would laugh at anyone thinking these are statements of pride.

I live the majority of my time in the world in my head. I don't always understand that these internal conversations and evaluations do not generally bubble to anyone outside. I do work hard on our relationship and I have also come so very close to giving up on it many times. At first I felt my needs were not being met - no consideration for what her needs really were. In my ego I was a wonderful person, I justified all of my selfishness. Did I have legitimate complaints? I'm sure there are a few.

Then came the awareness. In my mid-forties, like so many other people, I started to notice a pattern of failures. I had spent my life trying attack these flaws but things were not getting any better. And then the pieces fell into place. It felt like a lightning strike.

Being currently undiagnosed, I have a hard time saying what I am or am not. I'm in a state of limbo. I feel on the outside of two worlds. A purgatory between the NT world and not really feeling accepted by the ASD world (it's just how I feel, no need to defend). This "event" in my life has made me re-examine every memory I had. I have had to look at myself from a 180 degree point of view. I have no ego left to protect myself from me.

I cannot express the guilt I feel for my wife. I feel like I sold her a broken dream. How can I provide if I’m the one needing the provision? I would have had no problem understanding if she left me for a more "stable" life. But ... thankfully ... neither of us have anywhere to go. I would have a hard time entering into a new relationship. The odds of finding someone else who could tolerate my tantrums or peculiar behavior would be slim and exhausting. We’re both broken-in all too well. My life as a comfy shoe.

Why would I want to leave her? Initially I would have left her to follow my own selfish needs. Now, I would leave her so she could have the happiness she deserves. She put a lot of energy in helping me achieve my dreams. I chased that dream hoping I could give her, her dream. All I want for her is to be happy. Ever since I met her, I've wanted her to be happy. I wanted to be the one who provided the happiness, not the one who is the problem. It is very arrogant of me to presume to know what will make her happy. After all, I’m the same toothpaste only in a different box. I am no different to her before or after.

We have two kids of high school age. I'm not the best parent. I act more like a child myself than an adult. I love my boys. They are the most interesting combinations of the two of us and inspire me to no end. We each have a different relationship with our boys. Sometimes I hear her easily laughing with them at times when she doesn't laugh for me. I adore her when she's happy. I want that to be me making her laugh. My sons have a different relationship with me. Mom lays down the rules, she’s the caregiver and she runs the house. I’m support and light entertainment. She has a strong connection with the youngest. My wife and I don't interact with each other like we do with the kids. Is my love for her different? Well, yes it is. I would never think about giving up on my kids. I created them. My wife had a choice to be with me. My kids had no choice. Is it too bad for my wife? No, they are all my family. I couldn't imagine them any differently than my arm or any other limb. They are all part of me, my life, my experience, my body.

I read your post as I was in the middle of trying to reconnect with my wife. The kids, the pets, life; everything conspires to get between us. I felt us drifting apart. We weren't enjoying good times together, only sharing in the day-to-day misery. Our emotional cycles never seem to be in step. I'm always chasing her moods and I need strong signs of her approval. Sometimes I feel like a roommate, just someone to do x number of chores. It's frustrating and I keep trying. I either try to make it better (sacrifice my needs) or I try to give up (and only service my needs). Your post caused me great concern because I could easily see myself in that situation. I went up and told her that I love her and I would never leave. We were pulling away from each other with the false impression that the other person was no longer interested. I expect her to see me suffering and provide love and support. If she doesn't react in the way I want then I project she doesn't care. But, what is happening is that I'm not providing clear communication. I need to swallow my ego that says notice me (poor me, whinging away) and speak very bluntly. Remove the confusion and deal with the subtle expressions later.

Late life ASD diagnosis is a blessing and a curse. A lot of old problems and questions get answered but little to no solutions are offered and it feels late to turn the ship from hitting the iceberg. My head is a tangled mess. I feel like I have a split personality. It's hard to not fall back on old NT patterns and think this is something I can fix with just the right amount of effort or focus. And then there's the ASD side that lays naked without ego. Every social interaction plotted and evaluated endlessly, like a Super Bowl game recap with the harshest critics from the losing team.

And out of all this confusion and up-ending, only a small trickle makes it out of my head into her world.

My advice in general, don't look for what you're expecting to be there in the form that you expect it to be there in. This isn't a criticism of your response or outlook. Your desire to understand goes far beyond what most are willing to endure. All questions are valid and it is your life, your happiness. Guard that happiness closely. The hardest part is accepting truths that you can't see or understand. Love can be different, yet still equal. You both can see the same painting and be moved by it for different reasons. He just might not be able to express those feelings in a format you both can understand. To understand is knowing you may never understand in the same way - which is true of everyone. Adjust life for the filter that you are viewing it through.

I think that's enough Kung Fu (tv show) philosophy for the day. In the end, I've only given you some trying-to-be clever analogies of what my life is like. There's nothing about this that can be fixed or understood by being clever with words or by fortune cookie outlooks. If I have provided any comfort it is by chance, not expertise. I'm only a guy trying to battle windmills as if they were dragons. I wish you the peace that you seek. It seems so hard to bottle and it doesn't ferment well. But you do deserve it, we all deserve it. I raise my glass and toast you all. You are all knights in my world. I just may not be able to tell you that with words.



Voxish
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28 Aug 2017, 4:21 am

I have been married for 27 years, I am very, very lucky and I know it.

My wife has been very patient it has to be said, she has need to be with my socialy inept style of communication (rude, blunt, brutally honest, black and white thinking...you get the picture) thats if she can get me out of the house to meet any one at all that is. We live in a little cottage and living with her is the only thing I have ever wanted. I don't have friends and do not want any either. I see enough of the world when I go out and I do not want anything or anyone else...she is all I need and I would be totally lost without her.

Not sure what else to add....er....thats it 8)


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magz
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29 Aug 2017, 5:46 am

ladyliss, I may have just a little suggestion about diffrent behavior towards you and the children. I grew up with an uncle, who I believe to have ASD. He was great with kids but always violently quarreled with adults. He was behaving like he was afraid of adults and used spoiling attacks to defend himself. With kids he was comfortable like he felt safe.

Now I feel something similar.
I'm the kind of strongly camouflaged ASD so before I realized what was going on, it took time and consuelling. Anyway, what makes me feel insecure with other adults is, in my case, being interpreted. I can't relax with other adults present because they always interpret me. They add meaning to my moves, to my posture and never belive when I tell them they are wrong. Even my spouse does this, despite his knowing of my ASD and being the thinking-over-feeling type.
Little kids and animals don't interpret me and that enables me to relax and show affection.

I have no idea if anything similar happens to your partner. Pity he doesn't want consuelling but it might indicate similarity - that he is stressed in the presence of other adults, incredibly stressed in the presence of "third party" and can relax only in relationship with toddlers.


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Luna035
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27 Nov 2017, 12:07 pm

Must Be Nice.



Benjamin the Donkey
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09 Jan 2018, 9:20 am

Yes, I am married, improbable as it seems. Ten years. Two kids. I'm often amazed by this.


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Nis47
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13 Sep 2018, 6:17 pm

SeriousGirl wrote:
I've been with my hubby for 24 years and I feel like it is the only real family I've ever known. He's a pretty introverted guy with some aspie traits. We have no social life with "friends," but we do a lot of things together.

On the issue of the card, I think I would send a paper sympathy card. When in doubt, send a card as it never hurts a relationship.

Great idea for a thread!



I am desperate to save my marriage. How have you done it for 24 years?



Magna
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13 Sep 2018, 9:47 pm

Cool thread here. Married 17 years (second marriage for me, first for her) with three kids. My wife is very introverted with social anxiety and she likes a lot of alone time after the kids are in bed like I do. Probably not ideal, but often she and I scatter to our "corners" often. I think an NT wife would have divorced me a long time ago.....



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14 Dec 2018, 7:20 am

Argh. Myself, my wife, and two young kids are visiting our in-laws across the globe in Asia. Needless to say I’m being pushed to and beyond my limits. As background info, my diagnosis was very recent, and I’m still really just starting to come with terms with it.

This morning, I woke up with my 4 year old jumping in my bed, and I was tired after an incredibly draining day yesterday, and wanted to sleep, so I started the day already in a lousy mood. So then an hour later my wife is engaged in conversation (which I couldn’t understand well) with her family while I was keeping the kids out of trouble. So again, I’m already at my limits, and then she asked me in front of her family I can reschedule a work call I had scheduled for Tuesday to another day. She had previously told me that day would be OK for a call. Rescheduling didn’t bother me much, but I was really nervous her dad was planning some all-day outing that I would have to go along with, which I know will drive me nuts and I’ll probably shutdown and be completely embarrassed by my behavior in some way if it happens. My wife didn’t really reply so I again asked “for what?”, and she replied “I don’t know” and seemed annoyed. I let it go for the time being since it was clear I couldn’t engage at this point.

After this I found myself getting upset and frustrated and I didn’t really know why. To keep the story short, I kind of shutdown at this point. The kind where you can’t tolerate being around anyone. I went to the bedroom, lights off, headphones, blanket over whole body. Was probably there for 2 hours. This is a very severe reaction for me. Normally I can weather things out. I was really overwhelmed and pissed, and took me a long time to work out that I was angry that my wife and/or her family make plans without including me.

So, another hour later, I build up the courage to say why I’m shutdown and say what’s on my mind. I did this in as reasonable way as possible. I was careful not even to blame her. I didn’t even ask her to reschedule whatever it is we’re doing on Tuesday. I just asked that I’d really like to be included in plan-making next time, and that I get overwhelmed and exhausted by too many outings, and that I need some time to myself sometimes. I’ve mentioned this to her a couple times before, in particular after my diagnosis when I realized I really need down time. But no – she is too overwhelmed by her dad already and pissed that I bring this request up, and she’s pissed I was shut down for the last 3 hours when we’re supposed to be having fun with the kids. She even brings up that she packed all the kids’ clothes before the trip and that this was emotional burden.

I know this post is getting too long. Bottom line is these things always turn out to be my fault. I’m terrified to bring up anything critical or anxiety-provoking to my wife (she is prone to anxiety). She almost always gets really upset, stops talking for a while, and then brings up a bunch of things I did wrong or bad assumptions I made. She’s usually right about a bunch of her points and I am more than generous to acknowledge them and apologize for mistakes on my part. But I never feel like she actually makes an effort to understand and think about how I am feeling :( I love her and we really are a good match for each other and we do a great job as parents. But once in a while this happens. When it comes to issues like this relating to me getting overwhelmed, she usually doesn’t even acknowledge what I talk about, and instead immediately shifts to her feelings: that me saying this makes her angry because she has so much emotional burden planning things. But that doesn’t change the fact I’m being pushed beyond my limits. I just wish she could understand this part of me. I don’t know that I’ve ever finished an argument with her feeling like I was able to communicate to her how I really feel. She did ask what she could do differently, but again, when I say something, she gets upset and then emotions blind my ability to think clearly and then I can’t remember the logically worked-out thoughts I had queued up beforehand. I know my communication is lousy, and melting down like this is not ideal and must be super annoying to her. I just don’t know how to make progress. I feel like I keep getting more and more afraid to open up to her if I have to be critical about something. I get terrible anxiety about it and that only contributes to melting down.

So, that’s my rant. If anyone has any advice or empathy or similar experiences to share, that would really help me out. I feel invalid.



Magna
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14 Dec 2018, 8:29 am

Thanks for posting. I'm sorry you're having such a difficulty. I don't blame you a bit. You're experiencing a trifecta of environmental and emotional overload: New environment/foreign country, staying with the in-law's, no acceptable way to solitude and recharging. Also, young kids require more hands on constant parenting as you know which can add to or enhance stress.

Since your relatively recent diagnosis, what is your wife's reaction to or attitude about your diagnosis?

How long have you been married?

How much longer before you head home?



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14 Dec 2018, 9:13 am

Magna wrote:
Since your relatively recent diagnosis, what is your wife's reaction to or attitude about your diagnosis?

How long have you been married?

How much longer before you head home?


Thanks for the reply, Magna. My wife was hugely supportive when I first told her of the preliminary screening indicating ASD that led to me getting a full evaluation. I couldn't have asked for more. When the real diagnosis came, though, she was more surprised. I assured her that I was still the same person. And that we wouldn't jump to conclusions about one of our sons who shows a lot of signs. We left later in the week, and there has been so much going on, that it hasn't really come up in conversation. I have made a few comments about it but she did not engage. I think her mind was just on other things. I am a bit nervous that she is denying it mentally but probably she's not thinking about it due to the busyness and her own stress. I personally was struggling to accept it up until this last week but I've noticed so much during that week and reconciled so many things in my mind about my past that I am pretty much convinced. We've been married 6 years. Really very compatible except this issue keeps coming up for me. And I'm nervous she won't respect me if she gets hung on autism. For example do I have to tell her this was all "meltdown"? I just now read in Tony Attwood's book that a meltdown was exactly what it was.

It's in extended trip -- back early January.



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14 Dec 2018, 11:06 am

My sympathies go out to you. That is an extended trip. In my opinion you have to go into survival mode. Here's what I mean by that:

You have to talk to your wife (who is undoubtedly under extra stress as well with all of you staying in her parent's place) and tell her that you're overwhelmed because the trip is so much different than at home for you. Tell her you're certainly "there" for her and that you're both a team, but that you'd be lying if you didn't say that because everything is so different (not bad, just different) that it's draining to you.

Then, you need to have a "light at the end of the tunnel" each night that you can tell yourself something like: "I just have to make it until [whenever you can just crash in bed]. Then, when you reach that goal, just flop down and shut down completely.

Try to take "micro-breaks" during the day when you feel overwhelmed by going into the bathroom, locking the door and just sit down, rub your face, your head, etc and take deep breaths and tell yourself that you can make it until [whenever you can crash in bed or retire to the bedroom]. That time will be your saving grace.

Try to do as many things that relax you as you can. For example, if showers relax you, when you take your shower, revel in how good it feels more so than you normally would.

Play off the "For whatever reason, I've just been feeling really tired on the trip". Don't abandon your duties in helping your wife take care of the kids, but if you float that out there that you're lower on energy than you normally would be, your wife and her parents won't think it's so weird if you try to rest when you can.

I'm not an herbalist or anything, but valerian root tea can be calming.



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15 Dec 2018, 10:39 am

Magna, your advise was very helpful to read when I woke up this morning. I set a goal to make it through to mid-day, when usually there is a little downtime as at least one kid naps every day. I had a random conversation with my father-in-law at breakfast time about how fresh fish have non-cloudy eyes, hah. I know nothing about that but nor why he brought this random topic up out of nowhere, but just having a successful and not awkward conversation set a good tone for the day. My mother-in-law also offered to watch the kids a ton today, so that took a lot of stress off. My wife and I both seemed content to leave yesterday's events behind us. I'll hopefully survive the trip, and maybe enjoy a lot of it if I can keep my mind in the right state and focusing on getting through one day at a time (or less). And then after the trip follow up with my therapist on strategies to address the communication challenges with my wife.

So it was a good day, and I built up a lot of positive momentum. Tomorrow is a pretty packed day traveling to more relatives, but there will be some low-stress time in the evening available. So I'll just focus on getting through to that. My wife's brother is also in town now, who is one of the rare people I enjoy talking to, which helps.