Some whose forbares fought segration are wanting it back?

Post Reply New Topic

This is not about "black spaces". This is about blacks jumping up and down screaming "RACISM".

From the video:

"White oppression"
"White men invading black spaces"
Professor: "Problem with whiteness"
Black group: University President needs to apologize for "white privilege"
"Black power!"
"Blacks are in chains"
"White media can't understand black spaces"

So, the message to "white people": don't live near blacks, don't hire blacks, don't have anything to do with them because they have a perverse mindset that *YOU* are a problem in their lives.

LoveNotHate I get what you are saying but I can't emphasise enough how much they have been coached by predominately white groups. The whole concept of "safe spaces" comes from third wave feminism and this protest actually started with this leadership. As well as the idea that a certain demographics are cannot truly be oppressed, by virtue of being the oppressor demographic. They like to conflate a lot of issue together, and white male privilege idea is a flag they fly. They use many logical fallacies:

1. "I'm oppressed, you are not like me therefore you must be the oppressor".
2. "I can't be bigoted becuase, I'm being oppressed".
3. "My right not to be offended is more important that your right to express your opinion".
4. "I don't see equal amount of my demographic in all career therefore we don't have equal opportunity". This is the equal opportunity = equality of outcome fallacy. Classic example is Russia which have more women in engineering careers despite being deeply patriarchal society, which is traditional family oriented and homophobic. This isn't becuase there is is a fairer society, it is simply down to the available options for careers if you are educated, and financial stability is even more of an issue there, as their main exports are oil and gas. Given the opportunity to choose between an engineering career and some other career engineering careers women are less likely to choose engineering (and believe me I was in a faculty and they tried). Other careers like veterinary medicine have completely switched. They used to be more male, and now they are very much dominated by women graduates.
5. Pay gap fallacies not adjusting for career choice or looking at other demographic within the same career. Apart from the fact that pay gaps for the same job are totally illegal, and have definite consequences. This has been the case for some time.

So in reality is a combination a corruption of sound civil right idea and the conflated issued spouted by third wave feminists groups.

Most black people aren't advocating for segregation. You could argue people like Louis Farrakhan is.

Also people who are generally uneducated you can forgive them for generalising. It is when people who are undergraduates an graduates are making these generalising that you h

Please don't make the same mistake these bigots are doing by generalising. Many black people are much more reasonable than this, much more nuanced and intelligent even if they may not have had the same opportunities. Yes you can expect a certain amount of cynicism given history, and who wouldn't be? However they are able not to conflate issues and give most ordinary folk the benefit of the doubt.

As Chris Rock points out there is also an underclass of poor whites, who are not educated and quite deprived. They are in much the same situation that many minorities are.

Asian families when through racism and internment. Somehow managed to pull through and are now overtaking whites in career prospects.

So, thanks for these links. I must admit, I usually tune this sort of thing out as so much culture-war noise.


Concerning the first link, I still say most of that is due to over-zealous protesters who got ahold of some militant protest manual, likely online.

What they were actually protesting was pretty legit. There is a fairly toxic racial/general climate at MU and the admin really wasn't interested in doing much about it.
Wolfe completely mishandeled this crisis. At best he's stupid and lazy, and at worst he's an apethetic douchebag. Either way he richly deserved to lose his multi-million dollar/year job.

http://www.themaneater.com/special-sect ... fall-2015/

As for the second link, yes, the concept of 'safe place' has been taken too far in some places. While universities are obliged to ensure they aren't hostile or harrassing as much as possible, they shouldn't avoid upsetting topics or civil debate.

I my experience, this doesn't happen very often. I've participated in a lot of spirited classroom debates about things like white privilege, hierarchy of oppression, the failure of pluralism, etc.

Often, people get pretty upset but debate has never been shutdown for being 'unsafe.' As long as things remain civil, there's never a problem.

I can agree that there are a few well-meaning but uninformed people who misuse concepts like 'safe place' and 'white privilege', but I think they're the exception rather than the rule... at least in actual social sciences.

On a more general note, anybody who thinks there aren't still real, fundamental problems with race relations/inequality in America is fooling themselves or grossly misinformed.

MU is only about 100 miles from Ferguson... I can say from personal experience, Missouri is full of pissed off, angry, and increasingly alienated white people.

Things there will get worse before they get better... if they ever do.

There are some groups that advocate for this concept of safe space.

Whilst other may may not be advocating for something less concrete and more symbolic this not what I'm talking about.

Weather these people might be the exception, I think you are underestimating just how influential they are. These are university employees, lecturers, etc. In some case they secure mandatory course, where the spout propaganda. There is very little room at all for debate. It is not empirical. I have been tracking the phenomena for a while, and it is concerning.

There is pretty extreme stuff. Recently there was an "equality officer" at a British University, who had to be removed for hate speech she was questioned by the police for incitement. She was advocating violence against white males.

I think the culture in British Universities is somewhat different matter that the US. So if someone experienced racial abuse on campus, they are free to go the the police, which are independent from the university. We don't tend to have campus police, I think this is problematic, becuase you want the police to be independent of the institution you are studying under. I'm sure campus police have a defacto independence, but I think the concept is still problematic.

Secondly you could complain to the faculty, collage if it exists (which has a different meaning), university administration. Some halls of residence are private companies, you could complain to he management. You could talk to the student union, also they may be running certain facilities themselves.

In the second year it is more common for students to band together an privately rent a house. So if an event happened here they could go to he university but ti not really the university's responsibility.

The first year there are no dorms generally, you generally have a room to your own. There are societies you can join, but not really like fraternities and sororities.

You are generally treated like adult and expected to behave like one

The concept of the campus whilst it exists is much looser, it is just some land with buildings and rough boundary. Like I say some universities really don't have campuses, or are intermingled with the the town. Actually my university used to have four campuses, I think it cut down to two.

You're right.

Also, on most topics, I pick on "poor whites" the most.

Does anyone know why the Jazz hands and clicking have taken the place of clapping, as means of applause, on college campuses? I've seen it mocked in the media on the basis that it's happening because students are pathetic and irrationally fearful of everything.

To me, the the most obvious reason for it would be that it is a reaction to living in an area with high gun crime rates. Clapping can sound like, and it can be used to mask, gun shots. I can see why it would be a good idea, under some circumstances, not do this. So, Is this the reason? Throughout all the mockery, I have not seen anyone raise this possibility.

Yeah, I think these people are way too influential as well. They aren't typical, but in the US they are often used by the political right as examples of the typical academics and used to undermine their credibility on topics like global warming, evolution, or any research that clashes with their ideology.

That's problem.




I don't know about universities in the UK, but I'm betting they are generally smaller.

In the US, most state universities have 20 to 50 thousand students per campus. My university has an enrollment of 30,000 in a town of about 70,000. Therefore, students make up a huge percentage of the local population.

Most cities/towns in the US make their money via property taxes on things like cars and real estate. Since students don't own much, they don't pay a lot of taxes. Having the university maintain a small police force is just a matter of cost-sharing at a practical level.

My university also funds and runs the city bus system because many students don't have cars...

I'm not party political believe me. I think that issue is down to polarisation. This attitude that "I don't agree with you therefore you are not my friend" creates political tribes that see each other as alien. So if someone that is on a cross party panel or focus group that can be used to discredit them, when it normally a good thing.

However with these extreme example they are advocating things that are basically fascist. Politics comes full circle at the edges. It is merely a case of interest.



The average size is 15-18 K. The famous ones are obviously quite large, but they are often University towns like Oxford and Cambridge these are dived into colleges and you apply to the collage. Or some others are spread over many campuses.

The main thing is to have independence between the police force and the university administration.

I completely object to police forces specifically intended for secondary or primary schools. This creates the ideas that children and young adults are criminals and even teaches that message to the children. There are incident that do require police intervention, however I have heard some shocking stories where not only was the action inappropriate it also should have been handled by the school itself not the police. Police aren't there for school discipline they are there to enforce the law, and there are more important priorities to spend on than this.