9 Guidelines For Dating With Asperger's

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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Mar 2016, 5:31 am

Anyway, I find the idea of insisting that this "social expectation" and 'pressure to camouflage' is a woman-only problem is kind of ....insulting to me, because it kinda dismisses what I went through simply because I am a male.

In fact, where I live, the school education starts at a very young age, at age 3, unlike the Anglo system of education, the 2 pre-school "kindergarten" years were mandatory and we had a specific curriculum, we did have 'books'. Autism wasn't much know in the first of 80s.

Unlike the kindergarten in your anglo countries, kids don't simply play games and stuff, but we had to interact with the teachers, we were having daily "lessons" like "Letter: A, Letter B", "Numbers", colors, drawing a certain theme, and whatever...

And were supposed to learn songs and engage in theme, to engage in role-playing and to learn 'appropriate' social behavior like body language, eye contact, engaging with peers...etc - and mostly, we were expected to talk (in 2 languages in fact), which I had a delay at.

I really was thought to be mentally impaired for not talking; at the end of the year there was a test assessment they did on kids, a kind of series of games/puzzles/role-playing/drawing from which they assess whether the little boy or the girl can pass to the 2nd year, or to stay in year 1 or to be sent to special education program - I passed to year 2 since I passed ALL puzzles/games except the talk since I was mute, they were puzzled at that.

Regarding 'appropriate' social behavior learning, there was including the appropriate body language, for instance I was kept told to "look in the eyes" while she (the teacher) talked to me, teacher of year 2 was always upset at me and thought my avoidance of eye contact was a sign of disrespect/impoliteness, and I was always made an example for this; so beyond first year of elementary I have learned to look in eyes, I have learned how I am supposed to engage socially with peer and teachers, and you still tell me I didn't have to camouflage because it's a girl-only thing (because some non-scientific articles said so) :lol:. Have you ever been autistic boys yourselves?
....



androbot01
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09 Mar 2016, 7:01 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
After all, "having AS" IS "having the symptoms and behaviors of AS" - AS is not a kind of independent entity that exists even if you don't have the symptoms associated wth AS (yes, AS is suposed to be a neurological difference with genetic roots but still no proof, for all practical effects it is a behavioural condition, defined by symptoms ONLY).

Is that what you believe? Do the skills you learned in school lessen your experience of autism?
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..If you still think you have something despite all that, then they should create a different diagnosis for you, ie. "Women's AS" or "Camouflage AS" or something, ...

That's not very supportive considering that this is an autism support forum. You really think people who have had success with masking should not be considered autistic?
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Anyway, I find the idea of insisting that this "social expectation" and 'pressure to camouflage' is a woman-only problem is kind of ....insulting to me, because it kinda dismisses what I went through simply because I am a male.

It's not a women only problem, just women are more prone to fall prey to it.



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Mar 2016, 9:16 am

androbot01 wrote:
Is that what you believe? Do the skills you learned in school lessen your experience of autism?



Ok I see your point now, it never reached to a natural level for me.

I had a constantly tremendous social pressure to learn those.

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That's not very supportive considering that this is an autism support forum. You really think people who have had success with masking should not be considered autistic?


If this 'masking' becomes too natural for them, then it's no longer a masking - it is a cure.



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Mar 2016, 9:26 am

AS = symptoms of AS, one can't exist without the other.

Ask any psychiatrist on that.



androbot01
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09 Mar 2016, 9:35 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Ok I see your point now, it never reached to a natural level for me.

Me neither.
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
If this 'masking' becomes too natural for them, then it's no longer a masking - it is a cure.

Does that ever actually happen? My psychiatrist said I wasn't autistic when he first met me. After a number of sessions, he said I was suffering a bout of "residual" autism. Like I had slipped back because I was too distraught to mask.
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
AS = symptoms of AS, one can't exist without the other.

I think this view is wrong and illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of autism.



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Mar 2016, 9:51 am

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I think this view is wrong and illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of autism.


Nope, it isn't, thinking otherwise is a fundamental misunderstanding of the psychiatric diagnosis process.

In cancer for example, you may have cancer because doctors can see the tumor even if you are not showing any symptoms.

But for Autism, this isn't possible, so far. If you have zero symptoms, then you can't be diagnosed with Autism.


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Does that ever actually happen? My psychiatrist said I wasn't autistic when he first met me. After a number of sessions, he said I was suffering a bout of "residual" autism. Like I had slipped back because I was too distraught to mask.


And you may no longer be diagnosed with it, this was an old theory:

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Residual Autism

Definition

A concept introduced by, and limited to, the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-III) in 1980 to encompass individuals who once met criteria for infantile autism but no longer did so. The inclusion of this term reflected the lack of developmental orientation in the first official definition of infantile autism in DSM-III and was meant to address the issue of developmental change. This term quickly proved unsatisfactory in many ways since the problems of most individuals with autism (or what now is termed autistic disorder) were often quite significant even if different than those they first exhibited as young children. In the following (1987) edition of DSM the definition of autism was considerably changed to reflect a broader developmental orientation.



androbot01
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09 Mar 2016, 9:58 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
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I think this view is wrong and illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of autism.


Nope, it isn't, thinking otherwise is a fundamental misunderstanding of the psychiatric diagnosis process.

I understand the psychiatric diagnosis process, I just don't agree that it's an accurate tool..

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Residual Autism

Definition

A concept introduced by, and limited to, the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-III) in 1980 to encompass individuals who once met criteria for infantile autism but no longer did so.

That would be about the time when my psychiatrist was in school. He's retiring, thank God.

Boo, you keep referring to the medical world ... I know what they think. What do you think? Are you just going with what they say because they are an authority?



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 Mar 2016, 10:07 am

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I understand the psychiatric diagnosis process, I just don't agree that it's an accurate tool.


But it is currently the only tool for diagnosing Autism/AS - Autism/AS is a part of the psychiatric field, not the medical field.

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Boo, you keep referring to the medical world ... I know what they think. What do you think? Are you just going with what they say because they are an authority?


Who else to refer to? My own faith? I am atheist.



androbot01
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09 Mar 2016, 10:12 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Who else to refer to? My own faith? I am atheist.

To your experience as an autistic person.



The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Mar 2016, 3:28 am

^
Only if one day Autism gets a known molecular etiology (biological definition) like Rett Syndrome and Down Syndrome Ie. mutation of gene ABC on Chromosome X...etc, deletion of something in chromosome 3..etc

What if one day Autism gets a such biological definition and you turn out you don't have it after they check your DNA? You would still believe you're autistic just because of your life experience? Personally, I wouldn't - I would accept that I was simply extremely introvert.



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10 Mar 2016, 6:22 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^
Only if one day Autism gets a known molecular etiology (biological definition) like Rett Syndrome and Down Syndrome Ie. mutation of gene ABC on Chromosome X...etc, deletion of something in chromosome 3..etc

What if one day Autism gets a such biological definition and you turn out you don't have it after they check your DNA? You would still believe you're autistic just because of your life experience? Personally, I wouldn't - I would accept that I was simply extremely introvert.


Life experience is worthless. A biological test would indeed be the final word.



androbot01
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10 Mar 2016, 7:04 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
What if one day Autism gets a such biological definition and you turn out you don't have it after they check your DNA? You would still believe you're autistic just because of your life experience? Personally, I wouldn't - I would accept that I was simply extremely introvert.

If an accurate test existed, I would accept it's results. In the meantime, I've been diagnosed by a psychiatrist specializing in autism and have had "residual" autism confirmed by my latest psychiatrist, who admittedly has no expertise in autism. Also I have noticed profound improvements in my ability to function because of medications. But when I don't take them, I go right back to where I was.

Perhaps you have less confidence in your own diagnosis because you are not as severely autistic as I am?



martintupper
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06 May 2016, 11:56 pm

Thanks for sharing this wonderful article ..



strgun
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15 May 2016, 5:00 pm

I'm not a lesbian. I just don't date and I'm not happy about it. I would like to meet friends that are loners like I am. I'm not so sure if I have aspies, but I do wonder why I don't date at the age of 44.



Fnord
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15 May 2016, 5:05 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Are you kidding me?! Gwen Kansen is not autistic?! In that case it I find the remark about "rethinking existence" to be really offensive. I have a few more things I could say, but I don't want to get banned.
Then I will say it, as well. If you’re calling yourself something like "aspie89" in an online forum, then you need to rethink your existence. Letting autism define your identity will not likely impress many people.

The truth is always the truth, no matter who says it.


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OceanLightHouse
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29 May 2016, 8:08 pm

This was very informative, and much needed. I like what you said about a Guy or Lady liking you for wit, brain and candor. However if I may ask an honest question, what if you have all that until you are around someone you like? How do you keep your brains when your hormones are kicking in at an embarrassing height, and making selective mutism worse? It is hard to even make friends with guys I am remotely intersted in because of issues as such. I have piped down on trying as a result because I am Not sure how to work through these stressful ad embarrasing issues. I dont feel I can use my brains right around most people I think pose a chance of suitability. Could use some tips, advice, and any relateable expiririences.