Autism and vaccines

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15 Jan 2016, 6:26 pm

zkydz wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

zkydz wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

My mom had measles as a child, it's basically a bad flu and any flu can have complications but if you're a healthy individual then you'll more than likely be perfectly okay.

And that is where you lost any credibility you could have had. Not going to bang my head against the ignorance wall.

Is that not true? Will somebody in good health not survive measles? People die from the flu all the time, usually from pneumonia which is the same way people die from measles.

Last time I will entertain this:

Yes, people did die from the measles. And one case may not be bad due to an individual's inherent defense systems.

So many things play into that. What was the health during neonatal and post natal periods? Sickly? Healthy? Robust?
Was health impacted by other means? What are the genetics involved?

As far as death goes, you seem to think that would be the only bad thing?
Measles can cause encephalitis and brain damage
Mumps can cause meningitis, hearing loss, painful if not dangerous testicle and ovary swelling and damage.
Rubella (German Measles) can cause birth defects if the mother contracts it during pregnancy, Damaged hearts, deafness and blindness as well.
Chickenpox can cause extreme pain and not the only thought of itchiness. It is the Shingles virus after all.

Each of the diseases I listed not only create those problems in children, but it escalates as the patient gets older.

So, yeah, you lost all credibility when you said it's 'just like a flu'. Total rubbish and could have been found out with 5 minutes in front of google looking for an answer instead of looking for the answer you want.
You are obviously young and have not had to deal with this because I am old enough to remember polio victims in wheelchairs or with tragically deformed legs. Generation before me, yeah, people did die of this crap and many of them were healthy.

Basically, it's impossible to have a literate discussion with a conspiracy theorist. So, believe what you want. But I will not respond to bad research and bad science.

My mom told me it was like a bad flu, she had measles when she was a child. I'm very healthy, I'm not worried about the flu or measles. Considering how much hysteria there was over that Disneyland thing, I don't believe anyone died or had seriously complications. Most of those infected were VACCINATED ADULTS fwiw. The hysteria about people not vaccinated their children is the real problem, this infection came from out of the country but of course this did not stop all the little Hitlers in this country from proposing a mandate over your body. Do you get your flu shot every year?

polio isn't measles btw

fifasy
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15 Jan 2016, 6:34 pm

My theory is Autism has always existed in human beings but vaccines may be making the symptoms more severe.

Consider the fact that Autistic people are sensitive to sounds outside their body far more than other people; that many of us hate being touched. Injections of strange viruses could affect us more.

GodzillaWoman
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15 Jan 2016, 7:19 pm

Jacoby wrote:

It's hardly hysteria. Here's a link to the WHO page on measles: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
They estimate that vaccinations prevented 17.1 million deaths from 2000-2014. Just because you and your mom got off lightly doesn't mean that it can't cause problems for other people. Mumps can cause infertility. Okay, that's not death, but it is really sad for people that wanted to have kids.

Rubella causes birth defects--100,000 babies are born with rubella-caused defects every year: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs367/en/

Speaking of hysteria, some people are actually attacking vaccination clinics because they are that paranoid about vaccines. We would have eradicated polio by now if not for this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/police-14-killed-in-bomb-attack-on-polio-vaccination-center-in-southwestern-pakistan/2016/01/13/d27fafd0-b9b9-11e5-85cd-5ad59bc19432_story.html

It's a much bigger issue than Disneyland. I think it is short-sighted to only think of what happens in one part of one affluent country. Even if a person doesn't die, they may lose time at school or work. My wife was old enough to be born before the immunizations. She got mumps on one side, measles, and then mumps on the other (chronic asthma compromises her immune system). All told, she was out of school for three months.

By the way, I call Godwin's Law on the Hitler reference. Not wanting to catch a nasty disease from some antivaxxer hardly makes us Nazis. OH PLEASE :roll:

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zkydz
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15 Jan 2016, 7:28 pm

fifasy wrote:

Sensory input and biological interactions are not the same thing.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Jan 2016, 7:35 pm

I feel, strongly, that the benefits of vaccines, all in all, far outweigh the risks.

Unfortunately, autism can start in babies/toddlers around the time they are given the main vaccinations. This might also give the impression that vaccines cause autism.

zkydz
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15 Jan 2016, 7:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I agree . And as pointed out before, there are a lot of us being found on the spectrum before there were MMR vaccinations. Myself included.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Jan 2016, 7:44 pm

I actually had the measles--the year the first vaccine for measles was introduced: 1963.

I didn't get a mumps/rubella vaccine until 1997, when I had to get one to go to college.

zkydz
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15 Jan 2016, 7:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I actually had the measles--the year the first vaccine for measles was introduced: 1963.

I didn't get a mumps/rubella vaccine until 1997, when I had to get one to go to college.

I got innoc'ed for everything going into the military in 79.

Had the mumps...really, really not fun and much worse than the flu.

Had the chicken pox. Didn't progress beyond the major itchy stage. I got lucky.

Had the measles. Not a bad case of the flu either.

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GodzillaWoman
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15 Jan 2016, 8:06 pm

fifasy wrote:

Read Steve Silberman's NeuroTribes. He makes a good case for a number of cases of people with severe autism prior to the vaccines. It was standard practice to institutionalize such people--Temple Grandin's mother and Darryl Hannah's parents were told to institutionalize their daughters, and look at them now. It was generally assumed that such children could not be helped, especially if they started out nonverbal. They were all sort of lumped in with "ret*d, don't bother treating." Silberman even noted some children or youth who had made progress at home and then regressed when institutionalized. These places were awful, awful places, little more than prisons, with no therapy, no stimulation, and not even the beneficial effects of their family's love. For people who already tend to withdraw socially, this practically sent them into a catatonic state. Autism wasn't really studied until the 1930s and 40s. Prior to that, I expect low-functioning autistics were labeled as unreachable, and high-functioning ones (perhaps Henry Cavendish? My dad?) were just labeled as extremely eccentric.

I think the sensory issues are probably a problem with the structure of the brain and how it processes sensory input. I don't see how viruses would make a difference with that.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Jan 2016, 8:18 pm

Institutionalization was an option for me as well.

Luckily, my mother saw "something" in me---and thereby started making sure I didn't become institutionalized.

zkydz
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15 Jan 2016, 8:31 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Institutionalization was an option for me as well.

Luckily, my mother saw "something" in me---and thereby started making sure I didn't become institutionalized.

Good for her!! Wow.....she's the "Anti-'My-Mother'".

To be clear:
My mother = biological mother
Mom = Stepmother...wonderful soul.....

Edit: BTW, GodzillaWoman....great links and good information. You have a lot to offer

Thanks!

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kraftiekortie
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15 Jan 2016, 8:45 pm

My relationship with my mother is ambivalent at best

But I do give her credit for "seeing something" in me--that nobody else saw at the time.

AspieUtah
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15 Jan 2016, 8:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

My relationship with my mother is ambivalent at best

But I do give her credit for "seeing something" in me--that nobody else saw at the time.

You have returned the favor by becoming who you are. She must be proud of you.

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kraftiekortie
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15 Jan 2016, 8:54 pm

Thanks.

I think she's partially proud of me...but partially disappointed in me, too.

I think she thought I would get farther than I have actually gotten in life.

Nine7752
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15 Jan 2016, 8:57 pm

And, remember that the original research with Autism with Kanner and Asperger were done before MMRs. It's not like the spectrum just showed up in 1971.

Humans are really good at coming up with narratives to fill in the gaps. There's such a strong drive to find an enemy, something to blame. Ideally, science can be a candle in the dark to help us think through what is really happening. There's a lot we don't know still, and I'm no curebie, but the actual real research with brain imaging and genetics is pretty interesting. Instead we waste lots of resources refuting 12-person studies with half-million person studies.

Ahh, why am I even commenting on this subject?

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kraftiekortie
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15 Jan 2016, 8:59 pm

Because it's very relevant to autism.

It makes sense to comment on it.

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