Israel

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[quote="0_equals_true"]Citations

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vFp ... 65&f=false

http://www.afghan-web.com/woman/afghanwomenhistory.html

You re talk about suffrage in a time that Afghanistan wasn't even a democracy, although was getting there.[/quot

So Amnesty International is wrong, but "Afghanistan online" is right?

Huh there are multiple historical sources.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. The onus is on you making the original claim.

Please find an orientalist or historian and ask them. Please find the exact statute or law that supposedly did this at this time.

Yes Amnesty International is wrong, sorry. Sometimes that happens, people wrongly interpret sources intentional or not.

The long and the short is people tend to believe what suit them, but the history doesn't lie.

I'm sorry but it didn't happen. For two reasons: It wasn't a democracy then, and there was still resistance to such an idea. Even when they finally did it, there was too much resistance for it to stick.

It is a nice narrative that these countries were somehow more progressive than our own. It can sometime be true, in relation to specific ideas. However in you case it is more of a spin to try shift all of the blame for lack of human rights in these region.

The thing about Afghanistan is it is very tribal. Any national government is going to have its work cut out to to enact any law nationwide. That was true for the whole of the twentieth century.

Ummm if you are talking about the first intafada in 1987 which lasted till 1993 (I was around then and remembered this on the news vividly) then two things you should know. Firstly the Palestinians unanimously declared war on the state of Israel. Secondly more Palestinians during the intafada were actually killed by other Palestinians and by so called Arab allies such as Lebanon and Jordan than by Israeli forces. In addition groups like Palestinian Islamic Jihad not only attacked Israeli civilians but also killed Palestinians.

If you listen to the Evangelical and Fundamentalist churches here in the U.S. (And I had this pounded into my head since birth, almost 59 years ago), they will plainly tell you that in the Old Testament, JHWH gave what was formerly known as the land of Canaan to the Jews. They also state that when Israel was restored in 1948, this would be the start of the End Times, as prophesied in the Book of Revelations.

Well I don't believe that anyone has a divine right to anything. This is not a valid argument for modern statehood, nor is the idea hat there used to be a civilization thousands of years ago. For one the were other civilisations before that like Canaanite.

However a valid argument is an uninterrupted period in which a state with citizens has been well and true established.

For that reason Israel is not going anyway. The Palestinian state is also a given.

Problem is, among the Evangelical and fundamentalists churches, the Bible is the be-all and end-all. To them, the Bible is where God said it, I believe it, that finishes it, end of discussion and end of conversation.

Yep but evangelical Christians have little relevance in the middle east. They are wannabes.

Also it wasn't long ago that evangelical Christians int he states were known for anti-Semitic views, some still do.

In either way it about attempting, to legitimatise themselves.

I will do. Noam Chomsky, i'll email him. History does lie when lies are told about history.

Even if it didn't happen in the 20's, women in Afghanistan were walking around in normal clothes in the 60's and that all changed after the US came in and supported acid throwing maniacs and warlords.

Everyone's tribal when you get foreign occupiers trying to destroy your country.

"(I was around then and remembered this on the news vividly)", yes, because a country that gives Israel $10 million a day is going to present impartial news to the taxpayers they are robbing. Do you have any evidence for that crap?

If I'm wrong I put my hands up. You were misinformed, and becuase it fits into your narrative you didn't fact check.

The idea that people wore "normal" western clothes is not something I wasn't aware of. Yes is Cairo, Tehran, Kabul did have more liberal attire in the 60s.

However this the was far from universally applied outside of the cosmopolitan areas. Conservative views were enforced by tribal leadership in those tribal as they have always done, as government barely reaches these areas. The periods where miniskirts was on display was quite a short period.

You idea the Afghanistan was cultural progressive back then, is not substantiated. What is more the case is that intelligentsia form Kabul and the Shah who tried to push reform. Unfortunately it didn't take.

Cultures which promote repressive ideas, often produce some odd practices. Such as Bacha bazi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

The Ancient Greek did have soemthing similar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty ... ent_Greece

There was also similarity with regard to taboos/segregation of women.

I'll hold my hands up too. I think you may be right about the 20's, it seems the women were given the right to vote, but there was nothing to vote for. I emailed Chomsky and he told me the book he mentioned it in.

Shall I PM you the details regarding this and perhaps you could email him too with your good points?

Sounds interesting. However historical sources are what is needed. Is there a contemporary record?

OK, i'll do it over the weekend. Seems so.