Does Jesus approve of science
Ya wanna know? Ya gotta just ask!
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
While you're not wrong, I don't believe Jesus would be for government-mandated redistribution of wealth. The reason being, the act of voluntary giving is good for the soul; it teaches humility and mercy. If it shifts from "how can I help others" to "how am I required to help others" then it no longer helps the giver to become a better person, and the attitude of the receiver can quickly shift from thankfulness to entitlement. Just my 2c...
Anyway, on topic, I would think that any benevolent deity would applaud science if it is used to better the human condition. I doubt they'd even have issues with belief in evolution so long as they were not cut out of the picture entirely.
Actually, in Leviticus, farmers are commanded to share their grain with the poor.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
While you're not wrong, I don't believe Jesus would be for government-mandated redistribution of wealth. The reason being, the act of voluntary giving is good for the soul; it teaches humility and mercy. If it shifts from "how can I help others" to "how am I required to help others" then it no longer helps the giver to become a better person, and the attitude of the receiver can quickly shift from thankfulness to entitlement. Just my 2c...
Anyway, on topic, I would think that any benevolent deity would applaud science if it is used to better the human condition. I doubt they'd even have issues with belief in evolution so long as they were not cut out of the picture entirely.
Actually, there's plenty of indication that God (and Jesus specifically) did want redistribution of the good of society via taxation.
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthew 22:21 (God commanding people to pay taxes for the benefit of everyone)
"Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth" - 1 Corinthians 10:24.
"If someone takes away your coat, let him have your shirt as well..." - John 2:14-15
"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the Kingdom of God" - Luke 6:20-26
"Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." - Luke 12-15
"Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 19:23
"He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and he who gives gifts to the rich - both come to poverty." - Proverbs 22:16
"But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil." - Luke 6:35
(plus, all the general bits about do unto others, etc. which clearly take a larger view of promoting a society where everyone looks out for everyone else, and no prohibitions on doing so via government and taxation.)
_________________
“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
―Carl Sagan
^Tangential to the original topic.
The point is:if you could go back in time to sit at the feet of Jesus and ask him he would probably sound much like Buddha, and say something like "my ministry is about salvation, and about spreading charity, and compassion. And its not about cosmology, or what gets printed in science text books. So go ahead and make all of the bubbles you want ( or dig up all of the fossil evidence for evolution that you want). I dont care."
And if you were to tell the man himself that "in the next 2000 years your ministry will be linked to specific theories about cosmology (like geocentrism), and to the Earth being a certain age, he would be shocked that folks in the future will nail irrelevent beside the point baggage like that onto his message.
^ Assumptions based on the baggage later nailed on by Paul and others.
In reality, there's only *one* collaborating document outside of the Bible that pertains to what is now called Christianity. It's by...I *think* Pliny and is a very brief mention of the "Christists" (or "King-ists") who according to his mention were a tiny cult in Rome that by definition denounced the official state religion of the Roman Gods in favor of a King-diety. No mention of the members or leaders of said cult, nor any other specific beliefs.
Everything else comes through the Councils several hundred years later as they built a religion capable of conquering a continent.
_________________
“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
―Carl Sagan
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
In reality, there's only *one* collaborating document outside of the Bible that pertains to what is now called Christianity. It's by...I *think* Pliny and is a very brief mention of the "Christists" (or "King-ists") who according to his mention were a tiny cult in Rome that by definition denounced the official state religion of the Roman Gods in favor of a King-diety. No mention of the members or leaders of said cult, nor any other specific beliefs.
Everything else comes through the Councils several hundred years later as they built a religion capable of conquering a continent.
Actually Suetonius, andTacitus had made mention of Christians in the 1st century.
Suetonius recorded how, shortly after Caligula's assassination, the new Emperor, Claudius, had deported the population of the Jewish quarter from the city of Rome, after rioting had broken out there, following the discovery by orthodox Jews that followers of Chrestos were living among them.
Tacitus speaks of Nero's persecution of the Christians as a useful scapegoat, following the great fire in Rome, and the sudden discontent with the Emperor for all the destruction.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Having formed my views on Christianity through numerous other traditions, it's not really for me to say although I'm sure beyond any reasonable doubt the fertile crescent as it's often called was not only the first known seat of agriculture & Abrahamic thinking, archaeology continually reveals artifacts relating to not only civil engineering at the scale of more modern homesteading but even electronics, not-so-simple machines (our main problem with acknowledging those engineers was their bosses' nasty slavery issues), the computational predication of binary (binary was first invented somewhere in Polynesia), and then some.
Again it's only so vaguely my place to say but my 4 cents says that dude was probably a great scientist.
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
"Heaven helps those who help themselves" is actually from Shakespeare's play, Macbeth, rather than the Bible.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
While you're not wrong, I don't believe Jesus would be for government-mandated redistribution of wealth. The reason being, the act of voluntary giving is good for the soul; it teaches humility and mercy. If it shifts from "how can I help others" to "how am I required to help others" then it no longer helps the giver to become a better person, and the attitude of the receiver can quickly shift from thankfulness to entitlement. Just my 2c...
Anyway, on topic, I would think that any benevolent deity would applaud science if it is used to better the human condition. I doubt they'd even have issues with belief in evolution so long as they were not cut out of the picture entirely.
The government is the people on a large scale, of course Jesus would approve of giving to the poor. I don't think Jesus would care about how giving helps the givers, he was more concerned about the people that needed food. f*****g conservatives.
In reality, there's only *one* collaborating document outside of the Bible that pertains to what is now called Christianity. It's by...I *think* Pliny and is a very brief mention of the "Christists" (or "King-ists") who according to his mention were a tiny cult in Rome that by definition denounced the official state religion of the Roman Gods in favor of a King-diety. No mention of the members or leaders of said cult, nor any other specific beliefs.
Everything else comes through the Councils several hundred years later as they built a religion capable of conquering a continent.
Actually Suetonius, andTacitus had made mention of Christians in the 1st century.
Suetonius recorded how, shortly after Caligula's assassination, the new Emperor, Claudius, had deported the population of the Jewish quarter from the city of Rome, after rioting had broken out there, following the discovery by orthodox Jews that followers of Chrestos were living among them.
Tacitus speaks of Nero's persecution of the Christians as a useful scapegoat, following the great fire in Rome, and the sudden discontent with the Emperor for all the destruction.
My apologies I was specifically referring to writings from the time of Jesus' life as currently calculated. You are of course correct about the first century references, but by then the cult had already started growing, had it not?
_________________
“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
―Carl Sagan
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
In reality, there's only *one* collaborating document outside of the Bible that pertains to what is now called Christianity. It's by...I *think* Pliny and is a very brief mention of the "Christists" (or "King-ists") who according to his mention were a tiny cult in Rome that by definition denounced the official state religion of the Roman Gods in favor of a King-diety. No mention of the members or leaders of said cult, nor any other specific beliefs.
Everything else comes through the Councils several hundred years later as they built a religion capable of conquering a continent.
Actually Suetonius, andTacitus had made mention of Christians in the 1st century.
Suetonius recorded how, shortly after Caligula's assassination, the new Emperor, Claudius, had deported the population of the Jewish quarter from the city of Rome, after rioting had broken out there, following the discovery by orthodox Jews that followers of Chrestos were living among them.
Tacitus speaks of Nero's persecution of the Christians as a useful scapegoat, following the great fire in Rome, and the sudden discontent with the Emperor for all the destruction.
My apologies I was specifically referring to writings from the time of Jesus' life as currently calculated. You are of course correct about the first century references, but by then the cult had already started growing, had it not?
It had indeed.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
There is not one word in the Gospels about science pro or con. Your question cannot be answered from scripture.
_________________
Socrates' Last Words: I drank what!! !?????
While you're not wrong, I don't believe Jesus would be for government-mandated redistribution of wealth. The reason being, the act of voluntary giving is good for the soul; it teaches humility and mercy. If it shifts from "how can I help others" to "how am I required to help others" then it no longer helps the giver to become a better person, and the attitude of the receiver can quickly shift from thankfulness to entitlement. Just my 2c...
Anyway, on topic, I would think that any benevolent deity would applaud science if it is used to better the human condition. I doubt they'd even have issues with belief in evolution so long as they were not cut out of the picture entirely.
The government is the people on a large scale, of course Jesus would approve of giving to the poor. I don't think Jesus would care about how giving helps the givers, he was more concerned about the people that needed food. f*****g conservatives.
That's awfully rude of you. By all means, disagree with me, but hurling insults is really unnecessary. I disagree with your assertion on the government, but this should really be moved to a separate thread.
I would encourage those interested to do some reading on the topic:
https://realtruth.org/articles/140610-007.html
https://www.openbible.info/topics/socialism
And, on topic: https://www.openbible.info/topics/science
The first one is perhaps the most relevant: "Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them."
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
While you're not wrong, I don't believe Jesus would be for government-mandated redistribution of wealth. The reason being, the act of voluntary giving is good for the soul; it teaches humility and mercy. If it shifts from "how can I help others" to "how am I required to help others" then it no longer helps the giver to become a better person, and the attitude of the receiver can quickly shift from thankfulness to entitlement. Just my 2c...
Anyway, on topic, I would think that any benevolent deity would applaud science if it is used to better the human condition. I doubt they'd even have issues with belief in evolution so long as they were not cut out of the picture entirely.
The government is the people on a large scale, of course Jesus would approve of giving to the poor. I don't think Jesus would care about how giving helps the givers, he was more concerned about the people that needed food. f*****g conservatives.
That's awfully rude of you. By all means, disagree with me, but hurling insults is really unnecessary. I disagree with your assertion on the government, but this should really be moved to a separate thread.
I would encourage those interested to do some reading on the topic:
https://realtruth.org/articles/140610-007.html
https://www.openbible.info/topics/socialism
And, on topic: https://www.openbible.info/topics/science
The first one is perhaps the most relevant: "Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them."
Whether socialism can be tied to Christ is questionable, as that economic philosophy didn't exist yet (though the early church certainly practiced a primitive communism), it's obvious that he, and a great part of the Bible, denounces the oppression of the poor by the rich. I'm not familiar with the links you presented, but I have to assume that they're of a fundamentalist/evangelical persuasion, which has sacrificed sound theology for the sake of conservative secular politics in more recent times.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
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