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Do you believe God exists?
1) God is a being, that one can have a personal relationship. A person God. 30%  30%  [ 55 ]
2) God is an impersonal force that guides reality as it is. He decrees our laws of physics, but does not intervene to break them. 12%  12%  [ 22 ]
3) God does not exist. Reality can be explained by scientific inquiry and the scientific method in by itself. 33%  33%  [ 60 ]
4) I am not sure. There is the possibility that God does exist, or does not. We must follow the preponderance of evidence when drawing our conclusion. 26%  26%  [ 47 ]
Total votes : 184

Deltaville
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20 May 2016, 3:21 pm

AspE wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Again, there are no new subatomic particles to test. We have already discovered all of the Higgs mechanisms and vacuums, and only the notion of strings remain. Unfortunately, strings, if they exist, are forever beyond the reach of scientific inquiry with the particle accelerators necessary for its testing.

Scientists discover new subatomic particle

Strange new subatomic particles discovered at atom smasher

Two New Sub-Atomic Particles Discovered at CERN

Physicists in Europe Find Tantalizing Hints of a Mysterious New Particle


Maybe instead of quoting and pasting articles out of context you should understand that what they discovered was merely another quark variant produced by the Higgs mechanism. What I meant by the eventual inability to test for new subatomic particles, was that we CANNOT test for anything smaller than quark variants or the Higgs vacuums associated with them.


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Deltaville
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20 May 2016, 3:28 pm

AspE wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
...

And no, there is no such thing as theoretical 'testing.' It is a term AspE made up.

It's part of the principle of falsifiability. A statement must be at least theoretically falsifiable to be considered science as opposed to pseudoscience. It doesn't matter at all if the observation in question is practically impossible, it must be only theoretically possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability


You probably have never studied the scientific method. None of the contents of your citation even remotely corroborates your new bizarre conception of falsifiability.

You either can experiment them in the lab or seek observational support in falsifying the said hypothesis. As a theoretical physicist I have never ever heard of the notion of theoretical 'falsifiability.' I cannot even find it anywhere on the Web.


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AspE
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20 May 2016, 3:41 pm

Deltaville wrote:

You probably have never studied the scientific method. None of the contents of your citation even remotely corroborates your new bizarre conception of falsifiability.

You either can experiment them in the lab or seek observational support in falsifying the said hypothesis. As a theoretical physicist I have never ever heard of the notion of theoretical 'falsifiability.' I cannot even find it anywhere on the Web.

Ask your professor.



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20 May 2016, 3:46 pm

AspE wrote:
Deltaville wrote:

You probably have never studied the scientific method. None of the contents of your citation even remotely corroborates your new bizarre conception of falsifiability.

You either can experiment them in the lab or seek observational support in falsifying the said hypothesis. As a theoretical physicist I have never ever heard of the notion of theoretical 'falsifiability.' I cannot even find it anywhere on the Web.

Ask your professor.


I will certainly ask my Ph.D supervisor but I doubt that it is any more than a product of your imagination.


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Grischa
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21 May 2016, 4:11 am

Deltaville wrote:
I cannot even find it anywhere on the Web.


ASPE referred to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
On this site is written: "For a statement to be questioned using observation, it needs to be at least theoretically possible that it can come into conflict with observation."

This site also mentions two meanings of falsifiability, also in annotation 1:
"Thus, the term falsifiability is sometimes synonymous to testability. Some statements, such as It will be raining here in one million years, are falsifiable in principle, but not in practice.[1]
[1] Popper, K. R. (1994). "Zwei Bedeutungen von Falsifizierbarkeit [Two meanings of falsifiability]". In Seiffert, H.; Radnitzky, G. Handlexikon der Wissenschaftstheorie (in German). München: Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag. pp. 82–85. ISBN 3-423-04586-8.


I'd opt for the practical falsifiability as primary



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21 May 2016, 6:40 am

I "OP" for
A. Prayer
B. Meditation
C. Yoga
D. Arm wrestling.
E. All the above ( which I did this week)

I believe they all have scientific reality.

"If we can't laugh at ourselves, others will beat us to it."
8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O


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Zizu58
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21 May 2016, 8:43 am

drlaugh wrote:
I "OP" for
A. Prayer
B. Meditation
C. Yoga
D. Arm wrestling.
E. All the above ( which I did this week)

I believe they all have scientific reality.

"If we can't laugh at ourselves, others will beat us to it."
8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O



Sorry this post makes non sense whatsoever .

We're gonna have to look at your medication ...

:)



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21 May 2016, 12:43 pm

8)

I've thought of meds, but doc thinks it would rob my creative side God gave me.
So I option for my post below verses the eloquent debate going on here at times.
M. C. have quipped that doing comedy is cheaper than psychotherapy for this righter.
(Of course they voiced my name)

I felt the heat before I saw the light.


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Grischa
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22 May 2016, 10:26 am

since there's no news here on this tread, and it's raining outside, I'm bored; so excuse me for writing something here, whether it's nonsense or not
cheaper than medicine it indeed is

have been reading on a topic about "alternate orthodoxy". It has something to do with Franciscan Catholists. It is about that all creation is incarnation:
‘The incarnation of God did not happen in Bethlehem two thousand years ago. That is just when some of us started taking it seriously. The incarnation actually happened approximately 14.5 billion years ago with a moment we now call “The Big Bang”. That is when God actually decided to materialize and to expose who God is.
http://ruthvalerio.net/bibletheology/the-first-and-original-incarnation/
Reminds me of what Alan Watts is saying, that God materialized himself in this world. Maybe this is similar. There seems to be a bit of Christianity in it and a bit of Zen.
I like it, because here's a closer link between God and the world, at least it seems closer than in traditional religion.
Still wondering if there are some advantages here:
- don't have to wait very long for any historical emanation of God (second coming, Kingdom of God), anything special in this world is already an emanation from the divine itself
- makes the question of the theodicee less problematic: when there's evil happening, it happens at us but also at God himself
- don't have to ask why would God create the world or mankind (cause focus is on incarnation not creation);

I'm working on it, but still under construction:
http://louisseeksunderstanding.blogspot.nl/



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22 May 2016, 2:47 pm

Yes I believe God was here long before he let us know.

I read the Bible daily.
Today my wife and I worked on our yard. ( much bigger than 3 feet but I digress)

Before I knew God a blade of a bush was just a blade
After knowing God it was much more
Trimming one of our big bushes it was just another chore
After it was much more..
:o :o

8O
Me. My Wife
The Bush


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izzeme
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23 May 2016, 8:08 am

Deltaville wrote:
izzeme wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
AspE wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
AspE wrote:
Theoretical falsifiability is good enough, even if the method may not be practical.


No; in order for a theory to be considered science it must be testable or subject to test. This is a basic compartment of the axiom of science.

It can be merely theoretically testable, even if the technology doesn't exist now to do the test.


First, and foremost, there is no such thing as theoretical testing. A simple Google search yields no results for the notion of theoretical testing or falsifiability. I think that is a term you made up. In science, for an idea to be considered scientific, it must be subject to test or verification by empirical observation.


That is not the meaning of 'theoretically testable'; it doesn't mean "do a thought experiment and see if it works out", it means "think of a way in which it could be tested, at a later date".

You are correct that an idea has to be testable, but noone states that it has to be testable by current science; that is an added requirement in order to be lifted to 'theory', a hypothisis can be perfectly valid if it can't be tested YET.
If i want to test for some new sub-atomic particle, but the current accelerators aren't strong enough, that doesn't invalidate my idea...


Again, there are no new subatomic particles to test. We have already discovered all of the Higgs mechanisms and vacuums, and only the notion of strings remain. Unfortunately, strings, if they exist, are forever beyond the reach of scientific inquiry with the particle accelerators necessary for its testing.

How do you know that for certain; there might be a whole extra level of subatomic particles.
As long as the current 'smallest' level of base particles has several types, there is at least potentially a new sublevel, untill we find a level X where the difference between the players on that field is explained by a differing amount of the same particle at 'X-1'

We might find a whole new way of testing for strings, which does not involve particle accellerators, there is no telling what science will think of next.

Quote:
And no, there is no such thing as theoretical 'testing.' It is a term AspE made up.

I explained that, AspE did not mean that the hypothesis should be tested in theory, it means that you must be able to think of a way to practically test the idea, even though we can't do that *yet*



AspE
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23 May 2016, 8:25 am

izzeme wrote:
...
I explained that, AspE did not mean that the hypothesis should be tested in theory, it means that you must be able to think of a way to practically test the idea, even though we can't do that *yet*

No, I do mean that if it can be tested, even if only in theory and not practically, it is still a valid theory.



Grischa
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23 May 2016, 12:07 pm

AspE wrote:
No, I do mean that if it can be tested, even if only in theory and not practically, it is still a valid theory.


Would you step in an airplane that is tested in theory only?
I recommend real world testing.



AspE
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23 May 2016, 12:55 pm

Grischa wrote:
AspE wrote:
No, I do mean that if it can be tested, even if only in theory and not practically, it is still a valid theory.


Would you step in an airplane that is tested in theory only?
I recommend real world testing.

We are only talking about the difference between a scientific hypothesis and a pseudoscientific one.



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23 May 2016, 3:42 pm

In theory my lights should come on when I flip the switch.

Even I'm not sure where I was going with that one. Got distracted by a random noise.


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Grischa
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23 May 2016, 4:19 pm

just used mind control to switch on the light but failed
time to go to bed then