How would a country run by autistics and aspergians look?

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funeralxempire
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09 Aug 2016, 4:31 pm

v78d6s4nf8234 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
v78d6s4nf8234 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
v78d6s4nf8234 wrote:
It's not stealing if you are getting land as a form of compensation for the actions of neurotypical society.


And who will decide this compensation is valid? 'They're mean to me' isn't a justification for theft, even if your goal is to establish Autisrael.

Why let neurotypical society decide if neurotypical society treats non-neurotypicals badly?

Why let neurotypical society dictate how you live your life?

Neurotypical society doesn't view the way neurotypical society treats non-neurotypicals as bad so why should non-neurotypicals view getting land as a form of compensation from neurotypical society as theft?


How should they do it, even if they come up with claims to an area, it's filled with people. Do you suggest removing the existing population in order to accomplish this? You advocate theft and then attempt to rationalize it into something else and seem to be heading toward suggesting violence as a means to achieve this poorly justified theft.


Non-neurotypicals could buy land and negotiate autonomy.


States are notoriously unwilling to cede sovereignty over areas except to other states. Even if you created an island (ignoring the cost of such a project) some state would cease it from you unless you possessed adequate ability to resist. All other land on earth is claimed by at least one state, and since you would have no legitimate grounds on which to make your claim to be the new state with sovereignty (including even owing the land), no states would recognize you, and your actions would be considered essentially theft and insurrection. Recognition is the main way states gain legitimacy and you'd be unlikely to succeed at establishing that.


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Lanayru
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10 Aug 2016, 5:47 pm

Well, I think there are a lot of interesting ideas about the question.
On my opinion It is important to find creative solutions, like most off you did.
But still, I missing answers for important questions, such as there are works, probably most of us don't want to do, for example it would be difficult at least for me, go into a mine, and mining. But I think It isn't an unsolvable problem. You see, It is science fiction, but one day, robots can be an option, to tell the true, even we could help about that. There are persons among us (I even chance the majority of us) have an intelligence over the average, and yet I can't find any where in this forum, we would try to unite our minds, and develop something. I think start scientific projects could be an other dimension of being contact with each other, and a first step, for something new, something which only ours.
And yes, I agree with the others who say in our state could me more democratically, and less corrupt. We see what NT countries doing wrong, and if we have a problem or question, we could negotiate among ourselves.
Finally you said what shall we do, if an NT baby would born, well, for the first ones that could be a problem, but I guess, It's likely when he/she would grow up, left our country, because he/she would be happier with the ones like he/she, and over time the NT phenotype would be disappear, or (because there has to be at least a minimal immigration) they wouldn't be so many, they could change the entire nation's genetic.
So I think It is an interesting question, and these are just my thoughts about it, I am interested in a friendly argument, because I think it is at least an interesting thought experiment, with a plenty sociological aspects we haven't even touch yet.



AgentPalpatine
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11 Aug 2016, 8:44 pm

v78d6s4nf8234 wrote:
Why let neurotypical society decide if neurotypical society treats non-neurotypicals badly?

Why let neurotypical society dictate how you live your life?
......


Might it be getting ahead of things to suggest a country? There are currently 3 pro-Neurodiversity physical locations in the United States. Would it be more productive to first strengthen our own Identity and Culture and our own physical locations?


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TallSmartBrooding
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12 Aug 2016, 12:00 pm

Ardentmisanthrope23 wrote:
Just putting the question out there. I guess I dream of us taking care of our own needs and each other. I feel that I'd like to have more autonomy from a group of people(NT's) who often misunderstand us.

I just don't like putting my fate in the hands of people who think my quirks are slights against them...

Could we run our own affairs?
I would love to secede to a society that is not telling me to practise being "normal" the way NT's think it is...


Tyranny of the Majority or the Minority? If I was in a society where everyone was like me I would be "normal", if someone came in that acted differently the society would want them to adjust to their "normal" standards. We are a minority, at the moment, so we are abnormal. Even among those diagnosed with ASD there is a rainbow of difference. Being misunderstood is part of being different.
There is a great quote I can't remember who said it sadly "The guardians of sanity are the insane, for only by observing their actions do we know what we won't accept."



v78d6s4nf8234
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12 Aug 2016, 6:34 pm

TallSmartBrooding wrote:
Ardentmisanthrope23 wrote:
Just putting the question out there. I guess I dream of us taking care of our own needs and each other. I feel that I'd like to have more autonomy from a group of people(NT's) who often misunderstand us.

I just don't like putting my fate in the hands of people who think my quirks are slights against them...

Could we run our own affairs?
I would love to secede to a society that is not telling me to practise being "normal" the way NT's think it is...


Tyranny of the Majority or the Minority? If I was in a society where everyone was like me I would be "normal", if someone came in that acted differently the society would want them to adjust to their "normal" standards. We are a minority, at the moment, so we are abnormal. Even among those diagnosed with ASD there is a rainbow of difference. Being misunderstood is part of being different.
There is a great quote I can't remember who said it sadly "The guardians of sanity are the insane, for only by observing their actions do we know what we won't accept."

Regardless of whether non-neurotypical are the rulers or oppressed, neurotypical society will feel that they are "oppressed by the existence of non-neurotypicals".



Eloquaint
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14 Aug 2016, 7:30 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

The country will not be 100 percent autistic. No completly non diverse place exists in 2016 and two autistic parents far from guarentees an autistic child. So the country has got to decide what to do with thier NT's and who is autistic which will be a huuuuuge obstacle.



As I see it, this is the biggest obstacle. One false move and mazel tov! We're Israel and Palestine.


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Joehotto101
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02 Sep 2016, 2:32 pm

Everything aspect of life would be Homogenous and every detail would be told explicitly a day before it occurred.



yourkiddingme3
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02 Sep 2016, 3:04 pm

I created a near-future fictional ASD "country" in the form of a United Nations Human Rights Territory, which I call Newmind. The constitution of Newmind, which self-governs for internal but not international matters, mandates specified ASD-oriented civil rights. It also permits anyone "on the spectrum" ("Spectrics") to apply for citizenship/residency.

All citizens of Newmind are also citizens of Greater North America (a near-future union of Mexico, the U.S. and Canada).

NTs are permitted citizenship/residency in Newmind only in the cases of (i) specified employment; (ii) minor children of Spectrics; or (iii) spouses of Spectrics.

For a short story featuring interactions between Newminders and NT Greater North America, visit www.ethicalantics.com



LordLordyLord
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03 Sep 2016, 5:23 am

I am a historian, or at least I am going to be. I've had a keen interest in psychology and sociology as well, which would probably make me a keen PR person (as a bonus I am an INTJ). I know that Public Relations is basically propaganda. As the guy who gave it that name, Edward Bernays, was the person who changed the name Propaganda to Public Relations. I encourage you to learn about what this man has done because he has done a lot. Everywhere from manipulating the government, to getting SIGMUND FREUD, HIS UNCLE, into the spotlight. This man manipulated what the dream for Americans was and turned it into a monster. He believed that Public Relations was a good thing and that it could never be corrupted, but he was wrong. His propaganda techniques are now used in advertisements, in politics, in the military, in foreign relations, etc.

The point of me saying all this is that though he did mess up America a lot by doing this, he also created a way to change it. Propaganda is a tool, much like a gun, that can be used for good or evil. If say, one of us were to gain control... we could manipulate (in a good way) people to accept us into society. :lol: :wink: mwahaaahaaahaa



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08 Sep 2016, 4:09 am

No stigma attached to autism. People just get tired of dealing with troublesome people, and let's face it, as nt's, we're hard to relate to, talk to, and reason with. Normal people need to feel good about themselves. We need answers. When people see that they can't help us with empty words and eoncouragements they lash out to sooth their own ego. It's much easier than facing the truth of how simple and ignorant they are, and how different and free minded we are. That's not stigma, it's outright bias, and complicit rejection to any other opinion than one you agree with.

As to the statement about terrorist attacks, no one would touch us. I suspect that free of the constraint of money, capitalism, and backwards thinking, we would be able to develop advanced weapons in less then 6 months. I would say in 10 years we would be the mecca of civilization. The entire government ran by a decentralized voting mechanism, by which every citizen would vote on every issue, and all manual labor and repetitive tasks performed by machines. Thus freeing us to research and develop advanced technology. We would have no infantry. Only machines designed to disarm and subdue, not kill. Our rule of law would be simple: those who do wrong die or are kicked out. Anyone who doesn't do some form of work is kicked out. Etc. We would be a society of merit and strict rules. It wouldn't be communism exactly. It would 100% freedom and democracy, with the condition that you play some role in the society. My opinion.



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08 Sep 2016, 9:41 am

Of course no one would touch us. Who wants to go near a country in ruins, where emaciated scavengers kill each other over what few scraps of food haven't been eaten by feral dogs?

That's what it would look like. I wouldn't want to go there!


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Ardentmisanthrope23
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22 Oct 2016, 6:35 am

Wow you have a low opinion of us, don't you? :(
We're different not inferior, AJ.


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22 Oct 2016, 11:08 am

Ardentmisanthrope23 wrote:
Wow you have a low opinion of us, don't you? :(
We're different not inferior, AJ.


When it comes to running a functioning society, I believe that we are in fact inferior.


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22 Oct 2016, 2:55 pm

I don't think anyone has discussed this yet but if the world was run by Autistic people the welfare system in this country would be a nightmare. In addition to providing schooling, hospitals, police etc the government would also have to provide the masses services for the problems people on the spectrum face, whether it be sensory issues or communication difficulties, living independently plus many others.

Not just but if the entire country is autistic what that would mean is that around 60% of the country may have a more severe form of the condition and require additional support from government. Typewriters would have to be produced for millions of people.

Not just that of course but since other conditions are so common with Autism, epilepsy would affect something like 33% of the population. That's a massive number of people to take care of.



funeralxempire
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22 Oct 2016, 3:34 pm

Ardentmisanthrope23 wrote:
Wow you have a low opinion of us, don't you? :(
We're different not inferior, AJ.


Recognizing limitations isn't the same as believing the people impacted by them are inherently inferior. One can be less capable in some categories, it doesn't make them inferior in dignity or value as human beings. Someone who weighs 96lbs isn't inferior as a person, but they're probably not your best choice to be a body guard.


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WolfWhiteFire
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23 Oct 2016, 8:05 pm

Wouldn't it make sense to start with something more realistic like a city or town founded somewhere by mostly by people who have aspergers or autism, in some countries at least, cities are still bound by state and country laws, but they also have their own laws created by people who live there to suit them better as long as those laws still abide by the others. Also if there were an "Autistica", why would it need to only be people with autism living in it. Way I see a country like that, it would be more so people with autism are equal to people without, and due to a higher concentration of people with autism, people without who grew up there I would think would be more used to people with autism, and understand the differences better, reducing the amount of bullying and discrimination due to ignorance.