Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Trump: "Run the economy like a failed casino!"

Page 1 of 5 [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

MrLucky
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 141
Location: Tiltonsville, OH

13 May 2016, 12:26 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.

Crazy idea: Maybe we should stop basing our economy on the stock market, it's a bit of a fox-guarding-the-coop kinda place.


Yeah, I think the same way. My retire father's 401K took a bath and instead of him being down to 10 years on it, he is down to 8. I have nothing against the stock market but we do need to realize that it is basically nothing but a huge casino, hence the name of this thread. Tying important things ike retirement funds and so forth to it is not a wise idea.



wowiexist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 659
Location: Dallas, TX

13 May 2016, 8:52 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.


That is why I don't understand how we can renegotiate our debt. Much of the debt is in the form of bonds, which are bought sometimes individually, but also as parts of mutual funds and retirement plans. They are supposed to be the safest investment. That is unimaginable that we wouldn't pay out what they are worth. If that happened the stock market would crash pretty hard I think.



wowiexist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 659
Location: Dallas, TX

13 May 2016, 9:19 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.

Crazy idea: Maybe we should stop basing our economy on the stock market, it's a bit of a fox-guarding-the-coop kinda place.


I agree. Really the stock market isn't really the best indicator of how the economy is doing. GDP is obviously one of the main ones, along with unemployment, consumer confidence index, and consumer price index. The stock market is just people buying or selling stock and the stock price going up or down. Sometimes the value of a companies stock is a good indicator of their success but not always.



Aristophanes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,603
Location: USA

13 May 2016, 10:28 pm

wowiexist wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.

Crazy idea: Maybe we should stop basing our economy on the stock market, it's a bit of a fox-guarding-the-coop kinda place.


I agree. Really the stock market isn't really the best indicator of how the economy is doing. GDP is obviously one of the main ones, along with unemployment, consumer confidence index, and consumer price index. The stock market is just people buying or selling stock and the stock price going up or down. Sometimes the value of a companies stock is a good indicator of their success but not always.


The difficulty with the stock market is that it's not a casino-- we've merely made it into one. Underneath the card game of paper trading is the actual lifeblood of the economy: the capital to run the country's businesses. The concept of trading isn't necessarily the problem, the problem is that we've changed our own attitudes from one of long term planning to one of short term profit. When Henry Ford started making cars he was looking well into the future, he had five year business plans, and even ten year infrastructure plans for his plants-- now all we hear about is "this quarter's profits". The cliff is right in front of us but with our shortsightedness we can't see it.



Edenthiel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,820
Location: S.F Bay Area

15 May 2016, 12:55 am

Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.

Crazy idea: Maybe we should stop basing our economy on the stock market, it's a bit of a fox-guarding-the-coop kinda place.


I agree. Really the stock market isn't really the best indicator of how the economy is doing. GDP is obviously one of the main ones, along with unemployment, consumer confidence index, and consumer price index. The stock market is just people buying or selling stock and the stock price going up or down. Sometimes the value of a companies stock is a good indicator of their success but not always.


The difficulty with the stock market is that it's not a casino-- we've merely made it into one. Underneath the card game of paper trading is the actual lifeblood of the economy: the capital to run the country's businesses. The concept of trading isn't necessarily the problem, the problem is that we've changed our own attitudes from one of long term planning to one of short term profit. When Henry Ford started making cars he was looking well into the future, he had five year business plans, and even ten year infrastructure plans for his plants-- now all we hear about is "this quarter's profits". The cliff is right in front of us but with our shortsightedness we can't see it.


We have two generations now whose retirement is largely invested in the stock market & controlled by dishonest fund managers & investment corporations. We also have those same managers & corporations controlling the market to some degree and placing bets on the outcome. Finally, we have those same people (Corporate or Human) betting & manipulating futures, which were *supposed* to be a way for a corporation that produces something (food, cars, clothing, transportation of goods and humans) to have predictable costs a few years into the future.


_________________
“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.”
―Carl Sagan


Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

15 May 2016, 1:16 am

Trump walked it back but he was essentially saying we should selectively default on certain debts and negotiate a deal in which paying it off is even remotely possible but I actually like that idea. Not everybody needs to be paid, the tragedy as Edentiel is pointing out is that so many retirements and jobs of real people are tied in up in the stock market. The finance sector controls our economy, we've been living on their easy credit for decades and the jig is almost up. They are the next 10 generations of this country into slavery, we should choose to default now and let all these money manipulators go broke instead of delaying inevitable by stealing everyone else's money to keep these rich babies afloat. We literally have no hope whatsoever of paying this debt back as it is now, we really have no choice in the matter in the long run.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

15 May 2016, 1:23 am

CommanderKeen wrote:
Talk all the sh*t you want, but none of you here could build the empire that Trump has built. Omg 4 of Trump's businesses filled bankruptcy. Ignoring the fact that he has countless other successful businesses and that all businesses take risks and loose some because of said risks. Remember "New Pepsi"? That's a perfect example, but I guess Pepsi doesn't know how to run a company since they lost a lot of money on a product.


Actually, Trump inherited his riches and business interests from his racist father. Since then, Trump's been running his legacy into the ground.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

15 May 2016, 1:27 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
CommanderKeen wrote:
Talk all the sh*t you want, but none of you here could build the empire that Trump has built. Omg 4 of Trump's businesses filled bankruptcy. Ignoring the fact that he has countless other successful businesses and that all businesses take risks and loose some because of said risks. Remember "New Pepsi"? That's a perfect example, but I guess Pepsi doesn't know how to run a company since they lost a lot of money on a product.


Actually, Trump inherited his riches and business interests from his racist father. Since then, Trump's been running his legacy into the ground.


Trump is worth $10 billion and will be POTUS come January 2017, I think his legacy and brand is secure

deal with it :wink:



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

15 May 2016, 1:28 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
CommanderKeen wrote:
Talk all the sh*t you want, but none of you here could build the empire that Trump has built. Omg 4 of Trump's businesses filled bankruptcy. Ignoring the fact that he has countless other successful businesses and that all businesses take risks and loose some because of said risks. Remember "New Pepsi"? That's a perfect example, but I guess Pepsi doesn't know how to run a company since they lost a lot of money on a product.


Actually, Trump inherited his riches and business interests from his racist father. Since then, Trump's been running his legacy into the ground.


Trump is worth $10 billion and will be POTUS come January 2017, I think his legacy and brand is secure

deal with it :wink:


Well, we'll see about his worth, when and if he releases his tax info.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

15 May 2016, 1:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
CommanderKeen wrote:
Talk all the sh*t you want, but none of you here could build the empire that Trump has built. Omg 4 of Trump's businesses filled bankruptcy. Ignoring the fact that he has countless other successful businesses and that all businesses take risks and loose some because of said risks. Remember "New Pepsi"? That's a perfect example, but I guess Pepsi doesn't know how to run a company since they lost a lot of money on a product.


Actually, Trump inherited his riches and business interests from his racist father. Since then, Trump's been running his legacy into the ground.


Trump is worth $10 billion and will be POTUS come January 2017, I think his legacy and brand is secure

deal with it :wink:




Well, we'll see about his worth, when and if he releases his tax info.


Trump's brand obviously was undervalued, he will be president in part because of it so any valuation by Forbes or whoever that lists the brand as only being worth like $250 mil is ridiculous in light of all that has happened. How one measures one's net worth is up to debate, it does not matter to me either way but Trump has most of his money tied up in real estate assets which valuations of are very subjective and are always fluctuating.

Now those Goldman Sachs transcripts should be able to speak for itself, what is Hillary afraid of? There was an indictment drawn up for Hillary for the Whitewater scandal that has never been released.



CommanderKeen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2014
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,138

15 May 2016, 4:29 pm

Kraichgauer, I guarantee that you would not be able to do 1/3 of what Trump has done in terms of growing business and getting as far as he's gotten; even you started out with triple of what Trump started with.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

15 May 2016, 5:15 pm

CommanderKeen wrote:
Kraichgauer, I guarantee that you would not be able to do 1/3 of what Trump has done in terms of growing business and getting as far as he's gotten; even you started out with triple of what Trump started with.


Nor would I want to, as I'm not a ruthless narcissist.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

15 May 2016, 5:20 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
CommanderKeen wrote:
Talk all the sh*t you want, but none of you here could build the empire that Trump has built. Omg 4 of Trump's businesses filled bankruptcy. Ignoring the fact that he has countless other successful businesses and that all businesses take risks and loose some because of said risks. Remember "New Pepsi"? That's a perfect example, but I guess Pepsi doesn't know how to run a company since they lost a lot of money on a product.


Actually, Trump inherited his riches and business interests from his racist father. Since then, Trump's been running his legacy into the ground.


Trump is worth $10 billion and will be POTUS come January 2017, I think his legacy and brand is secure

deal with it :wink:




Well, we'll see about his worth, when and if he releases his tax info.


Trump's brand obviously was undervalued, he will be president in part because of it so any valuation by Forbes or whoever that lists the brand as only being worth like $250 mil is ridiculous in light of all that has happened. How one measures one's net worth is up to debate, it does not matter to me either way but Trump has most of his money tied up in real estate assets which valuations of are very subjective and are always fluctuating.

Now those Goldman Sachs transcripts should be able to speak for itself, what is Hillary afraid of? There was an indictment drawn up for Hillary for the Whitewater scandal that has never been released.


I think if there had been anything incriminating to the Clintons with Whitewater, it would have emerged a long time ago. As for speeches delivered to Goldman Sachs: I agree, there is probably something there. She probably promised them the same thing a Republican candidate would have - that she'll allow business as usual. Nothing illegal, but definitely something a Democrat should be ashamed of saying.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

15 May 2016, 5:35 pm

there were over 5 draft indictments for Hillary during the Whitewater case made by an independent counsel, it was a serious case and the American people should be able to know what the investigation found. If Hillary is innocent then she has nothing to hide right?



wowiexist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2013
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 659
Location: Dallas, TX

15 May 2016, 7:17 pm

Really how much Trump is worth isn't really relevant. His money won't help him be a good president.



Aristophanes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,603
Location: USA

15 May 2016, 8:40 pm

wowiexist wrote:
Really how much Trump is worth isn't really relevant. His money won't help him be a good president.

It's relevant in the fact that it's his calling card for why he should be president. Outside of the money, what other thing can he claim leadership skills with? Being a reality TV show personality?-- not going to cut it. If his valuation is not near what he's claiming that also raises serious credibility issues over his character and trustworthiness-- you know since that's all he talks about, since that's all he's ever accomplished (or not accomplished as the case may be).