Is it unfair of me to ask my gf for a prenup in this case?

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ironpony
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18 May 2016, 12:19 am

I proposed to my girlfriend and we have been very happy together for over three years now. I proposed just recently though, after three years, to clarify.

However, something happened. I was going to ask her for a prenup, but I was advised by a friend that I should talk to a lawyer first before bringing up something like that with my gf, so I know what my legal options are, and what I was talking about. Basically I am buying a house now, and investing in my own business, and just wanted to protect a few of my financial interests and finances... just in case... But I am totally open to her wanting to protect hers as well, and we would come up with an agreement together.

I don't know if it matters, but financially I have almost 200K Canadian in the bank, and she has 50 dollars. She doesn't have a lot of money, and is not wealthy, but that is a different story, cause of some things from her past. Not that that matters as to why I am getting it, I am just pointing it out in it mattered to anyone, when asking this question.

So I sought out a lawyer and made an appointment.

However, she saw my email while by accident, while she was trying to log onto hers, and saw the email message.

She became very upset and started throwing up even. She said that if she were to marry me with a prenup signed, she would not have children with me cause there is no way she would bring children into that type of marriage.

I talked about it with my closest woman friend and she said that if she were in my gf's position, she would not sign one, because if a man asks a woman to sign one, it shows me has questionable intentions and I do not trust her, and am all about money and not love, is how she put it.

She says I went behind her back with the lawyer thing, since I did not tell her, but I told her that the reason I didn't tell her I was going to talk to one, was because I wanted to find out what the laws are first, on the whole thing, cause it might not have even made a difference, with the assets I have. I just wanted to see what the options were legally first before telling her.

But she says I went behind her back, and she is now very upset and cannot trust me. I told her that we should go over the options together and will pay for whole thing. I told her we will only sign if he agree to each other's terms and come up with OUR own plan, but if not then she doesn't have to sign.

So she said that if she signs any prenup, no matter what the options she will not have kids with me and will get her tubes tide now. Those are her terms. She and I wanted to have kids in the future, in the marriage, but now she does not cause of the prenup and will get her tubes tide she said. But she says that she is okay, and everything is fine and seems calmed down and okay with the whole thing, accept for the one new term of hers.

Was this a jerk move on my part? It's just my gf doesn't have any money hardly. She lives from paycheck to paycheck and has 50 dollars only in her bank account right now. Where as I have enough money to buy a house, which I am looking for right now. So with this current situation, I thought it would be best to say yes to one, just in case.

Is that wrong or negative of me? She says I have till next month to withdraw the pre-nup request, or she will break up with me, cause it's not worth continuing therefore. Or if she marries me, she will definitely not have kids, she says as a result of it. What do you think?



kraftiekortie
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18 May 2016, 12:39 am

To be honest, it doesn't look like she'll sign the prenup...so it's a moot point.

Some people really think that prenups are cold and unromantic. Your fiancée is one of them.



ironpony
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18 May 2016, 12:45 am

Okay thanks. Well I think in order to make a decision of what to do as well, I have been taken advantage of before in the past and made a vow to not make the same mistake again. I feel like if I choose not to live up to my vow, and break, then I am kind of giving up on my vow... kind of like my dignity is going away because of it, if that makes sense.

It's more about that, than about her I think. But she says that by having her agree to a prenup, I am lumping her in the same category as the women who took advantage of me in the past, and it takes her dignity away, when I lump her in that category. Do you think that by choosing to not make the same mistake twice though, that I am doing that to her though, and perhaps I am being too jaded?

I talked about it to my friend and she says she agrees with me, cause it's our experiences who make up who we are, and if we choose not to learn from those, then what is the point of learning.

But mf says by doing that I am lumping her in the same category as others who I have learned my mistakes from, and she is not the same as those people, so I shouldn't treat her as one to keep that vow of not making the same mistake again with.

What do you think?



nurseangela
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18 May 2016, 12:50 am

I'm all about love and stuff, but the realist in me is thinking how many divorces there are now. I think you have bigger issues since she doesn't have any money to her name - if she's a spender, your $200,000 won't last long. I think you have a say because you have all the assets, BUT you'll just have to live without kids if she accepts the contract. Even if you had the contract and got divorced you will have to pay out for the kids. I used to think about having one of those contracts, but if you have no kids and you each come to the marriage with your own stuff, just keep everything separated without a contract. Separate accounts. You still live together and you'll probably be making the house payment - which only put the house in your name and your business in your name. Don't put her name on your savings accounts. Maybe after you're married 10 yrs and all looks swell then you can start adding her name to things. Prob forget the contract since she says she'll have her tubes tied. Any kids come along you should be obligated to pay for them. My brother owned his house and finally put his wife on the deed after being married 10 yrs.


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18 May 2016, 12:55 am

Ok from what I gather it probably looks like you're looking towards divorce before you even marry the girl. As the whole idea of such a thing is 'division of assesets'. I mean do you trust her? If so why does the prenup have to be made? From your tone sort of sounds like you look down on her for having less money than you and thus require a legal contract of finances to be with her. So yeah it could be you look like kind of a jerk.


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ironpony
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18 May 2016, 1:10 am

Well basically but I feel it's a matter of principle, when it comes to assets, as I told myself I was not going to put in the position that I was before in the past, with other situations where I was taken advantage of. So it's about my own assets, what I worked for, and my own principles.

I am buying a house now, and trying to start a small business with my money. Should I let her be completely open to all that money? She can have a good amount and I am happy to support her, but should she get all of it, if I am buying the house and starting the business before the marriage?

I do not mean to come off as a jerk but at the same time, what about living up to my vow that I was going to get a prenup? I am not looking towards divorce, it just seems there is always that slight possibility, and the people I know who have gotten divorced said they thought it would never happen to them.

I mean a prenup is kind of like how you buy car insurance, in case something happens to your car, or how you buy house insurance in case something happens to your house. You do not want anything to happen to your car or house, but there is always the chance that it could. So is marriage insurance so bad?



nurseangela
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18 May 2016, 1:12 am

I disagree with Sweetleaf and this is the argument you will get from women. Marriage is a big gamble especially if you have things to lose in a divorce. This is why I keep saying its important what the person has (job, car, assets) before you get married because that will tell you what you will be dealing with at least for about the first 5 yrs. I, myself, wouldn't have a problem signing one because I have assets to lose. The thing is, you might be able to get married without a contract and as long as you have no kids, keep her name off of your assets, you could then divorce and make a clean break - this is without a contract. I would check that out with a lawyer first. I'd wait to have kids anyway for SEVERAL years just to make sure the marriage is solid.


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Last edited by nurseangela on 18 May 2016, 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

nurseangela
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18 May 2016, 1:14 am

ironpony wrote:
Well basically but I feel it's a matter of principle, when it comes to assets, as I told myself I was not going to put in the position that I was before in the past, with other situations where I was taken advantage of. So it's about my own assets, what I worked for, and my own principles.

I am buying a house now, and trying to start a small business with my money. Should I let her be completely open to all that money? She can have a good amount and I am happy to support her, but should she get all of it, if I am buying the house and starting the business before the marriage?

I do not mean to come off as a jerk but at the same time, what about living up to my vow that I was going to get a prenup? I am not looking towards divorce, it just seems there is always that slight possibility, and the people I know who have gotten divorced said they thought it would never happen to them.

I mean a prenup is kind of like how you buy car insurance, in case something happens to your car, or how you buy house insurance in case something happens to your house. You do not want anything to happen to your car or house, but there is always the chance that it could. So is marriage insurance so bad?



I believe she has no rights to the business or the house of you buy the house and start the business before the marriage UNLESS she helps you with the business


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Last edited by nurseangela on 18 May 2016, 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
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18 May 2016, 1:18 am

Well I wanted to have a meeting with a lawyer to confirm all this but she is so upset with me now, that she will not allow the time for me to make an appointment and go over it with a lawyer, once I find that that seems good for it.

She is taking back having her tubes tided now. She is now saying that either I get engaged to her now, without a prenup, or she will break up with me. She says we have been dating for three years now and before I brought up the prenup, I promised to marry her a few months ago. I assume I have a few days time to make a decision before she will loose hope.

If this is what I am faced with and she is not willing to discuss the details of a prenup, or not wait for me to speak to a lawyer to find out what my finance options are legally, then what should I do?



nurseangela
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18 May 2016, 1:22 am

ironpony wrote:
Well I wanted to have a meeting with a lawyer to confirm all this but she is so upset with me now, that she will not allow the time for me to make an appointment and go over it with a lawyer, once I find that that seems good for it.

She is saying either I get engaged to her now, without a prenup, or she will break up with me. By now, I assume I have a few days time to make a decision before she will loose hope.

If this is what I am faced with and she is not willing to discuss the details of a prenup, or not wait for me to speak to a lawyer to find out what my finance options are legally, then what should I do?


I don't like threats. I'd break it off. She's the one with nothing so she has nothing to lose. That would royally piss me off not even letting you see a lawyer. Who is she - you're mother? Screw that. You saved all of this money so you make sure you're protected. Any confident woman wouldn't be that upset about a prenuptial if they have something to bring to the marriage themselves.


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18 May 2016, 1:35 am

ironpony wrote:
She is taking back having her tubes tided now. She is now saying that either I get engaged to her now, without a prenup, or she will break up with me.


You're basically being blackmailed. She wants the marriage to happen on her terms, with no compromise, and she's threatening to break up if she doesn't get what she wants?

I'm with Nurseangela on this one; you really don't want to marry someone like this. You should probably be asking yourself why she'd be this adamantly opposed to a prenup.



ironpony
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18 May 2016, 1:41 am

It's not that she won't let me see a lawyer, it's just that the longer I wait to see one, the worse it is getting with her. She said seeing one will do not good cause she will sign one no matter what options for her, the lawyer presents me with. Well she pretty much said it like sweetleaf said it and that if I want a prenup, it means I am expecting divorce too much, which is so not how I see it though, unless I am wrong.

Now even though I told you one bad thing about her (possible threat), she has done a lot of great things for me over the years of dating and has been a wonderful gf. Always supporting me and helping me with things, and me doing the same for her in return. We love each other and have always had each others back, so to speak.

So with all those great things in mind, how bad is the relationship now, with this new development, compared to all the other great things aside from it?



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18 May 2016, 1:49 am

ironpony wrote:
Well she pretty much said it like sweetleaf said it and that if I want a prenup, it means I am expecting divorce too much


Well, the reverse could also be argued, that she must be anticipating a divorce if she doesn't want to sign it. You're the one with the money, so you're the one who stands to lose the most from not having the prenup. That's just the cold hard facts.

I don't mean to judge your girlfriend too harshly, I'm sure she's a lovely person. But again, if she's this strictly opposed to a prenup, that should be sending up some red flags.



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18 May 2016, 1:54 am

ironpony wrote:
It's not that she won't let me see a lawyer, it's just that the longer I wait to see one, the worse it is getting with her. She said seeing one will do not good cause she will sign one no matter what options for her, the lawyer presents me with. Well she pretty much said it like sweetleaf said it and that if I want a prenup, it means I am expecting divorce too much, which is so not how I see it though, unless I am wrong.

Now even though I told you one bad thing about her (possible threat), she has done a lot of great things for me over the years of dating and has been a wonderful gf. Always supporting me and helping me with things, and me doing the same for her in return. We love each other and have always had each others back, so to speak.

So with all those great things in mind, how bad is the relationship now, with this new development, compared to all the other great things aside from it?


I think if she doesn't think you guys will get divorced she wouldn't mind signing one. Don't get me wrong, if she helps you to build your business then she should get some share, but if you do it all it should be yours along with the house. It's going to get sticky when you have kids. I would see what your options are without the contract - that's really none of her business since you wouldn't be signing a contract. Just GO SEE A LAWYER or you will wish you had. If she comes to the marriage with nothing and you two get divorced after 2-5yrs or so, then you should owe her nothing. To me, someone who has something to lose, she sounds like she wants to take care of herself should you get divorced and don't think she won't come after your business and your house and alimony. If you have kids, everything changes. I just don't like the way she's talking especially when bringing nothing to the table.


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nurseangela
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18 May 2016, 1:56 am

Barchan wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well she pretty much said it like sweetleaf said it and that if I want a prenup, it means I am expecting divorce too much


Well, the reverse could also be argued, that she must be anticipating a divorce if she doesn't want to sign it. You're the one with the money, so you're the one who stands to lose the most from not having the prenup. That's just the cold hard facts.

I don't mean to judge your girlfriend too harshly, I'm sure she's a lovely person. But again, if she's this strictly opposed to a prenup, that should be sending up some red flags.


Oh my goodness! I totally agree with you.


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ironpony
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18 May 2016, 2:03 am

Okay thanks. Well she said she was willing to make compromises if she got married and is open to making some, such as me having a separate bank account or putting the house in my name, etc.

She said the only one she will not do is the prenup, but is willing to compromise in other areas. Is that fair of her?