Why do aspies have a low performance IQ?

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League_Girl
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24 May 2016, 2:11 pm

It involves patterns, block design, anything visual so I am wondering why we would do low on it instead of the other way around?

My performance IQ has been 95, 106, and 107 so that is pretty consistent. But my two other IQ scores have always changed as I got older inconsistently. By 5th grade I got 92 verbal and 99 full scale when before I had 83 for full scale and I think I got a 73 for verbal. I would think someone with NVLD would get a low performance IQ score because they have visual spatial issues which is how it would get diagnosed.

What was your performance IQ when you did the tests?


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christophelambypie
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24 May 2016, 2:23 pm

Ive done three IQ tests in my life...
101
107
And 109
Perfectly average, so I understand. :D



slenkar
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24 May 2016, 3:42 pm

Some IQ tests rely on the person knowing certain things, you can be coached to improve your score.

E.g. an IQ test that I did as a 12 year old had a few questions where you had to notice patterns in number sequences, I later learned that in another school they coached the kids on how to do these problems.

109 is above average, BTW



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24 May 2016, 3:49 pm

My IQ is higher than average, and I passed the spatial recognition portion of the ASVAB in the 99th percentile.

I hope that the OP didn't mean all Aspies ...


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24 May 2016, 3:56 pm

Actually, NTs typically often have a higher verbal IQ, and the higher the IQ, the more difference there is. Many "gifted" persons have a very high verbal IQ and normal performance IQ, and are actually much more educated than logical. Performance IQ also greatly varies depending on the version of the tests, type of tests, and shortened or extended tests ; most IQ tests are shortened and don't show a full portrait of some cognitive functions. If on the contrary performance IQ is higher than verbal IQ, and some subtests such as Raven's matrices and code are highest, it's a possible sign of autism. NVLD doesn't have the same profile as it isn't autistic in itself. It's more a variant of dys-something learning disorders.
My performance IQ has never been low, but I got radically different results depending on the test, about 50 points of variation between a shortened WISC-III and an extended WAIS-III. I seemed to perform badly with shortened tests, and extended tests revealed quite a lot of things.



dcj123
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24 May 2016, 4:01 pm

I had a IQ test for a vocational rehabilitation program and when I asked what my score was I was told that IQ test were usually inconclusive on autistic people and they felt the score was not valid. I said okay and asked for the score anyway and they said that if I was too low, I would feel inadequate and inferior and if I was too high I would gain a God complex and again refused. So I have either a very high or very low IQ but I don't really care much since according to a cat scan of my brain. I shouldn't be talking and walking around according to my doctor I had as a child so you can't really put much faith in what man sees in you, can you?

I place little value in such things, my roadblocks and my gifts are not limited to a number.



Last edited by dcj123 on 24 May 2016, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

League_Girl
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24 May 2016, 4:02 pm

Fnord wrote:
My IQ is higher than average, and I passed the spatial recognition portion of the ASVAB in the 99th percentile.

I hope that the OP didn't mean all Aspies ...



I keep reading that aspies will have higher verbal IQs and low performance IQ's so I had to ask to see if any aspies have normal average performance IQs like I do.


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League_Girl
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24 May 2016, 4:03 pm

slenkar wrote:
Some IQ tests rely on the person knowing certain things, you can be coached to improve your score.

E.g. an IQ test that I did as a 12 year old had a few questions where you had to notice patterns in number sequences, I later learned that in another school they coached the kids on how to do these problems.

109 is above average, BTW



I thought 115 and up is above average and 90-114 is average.


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League_Girl
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24 May 2016, 4:11 pm

MissAlgernon wrote:
Actually, NTs typically often have a higher verbal IQ, and the higher the IQ, the more difference there is. Many "gifted" persons have a very high verbal IQ and normal performance IQ, and are actually much more educated than logical. Performance IQ also greatly varies depending on the version of the tests, type of tests, and shortened or extended tests ; most IQ tests are shortened and don't show a full portrait of some cognitive functions. If on the contrary performance IQ is higher than verbal IQ, and some subtests such as Raven's matrices and code are highest, it's a possible sign of autism. NVLD doesn't have the same profile as it isn't autistic in itself. It's more a variant of dys-something learning disorders.
My performance IQ has never been low, but I got radically different results depending on the test, about 50 points of variation between a shortened WISC-III and an extended WAIS-III. I seemed to perform badly with shortened tests, and extended tests revealed quite a lot of things.


Despite all my IQ scores being in the average range now, my deficits still showed on the test.


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24 May 2016, 4:15 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I keep reading that aspies will have higher verbal IQs and low performance IQ's so I had to ask to see if any aspies have normal average performance IQs like I do.

What are your sources ?
A "high verbal IQ / average performance IQ" usually signs a gifted person or learning disorders, not autism in itself (although there are always atypical profiles). Autistic people sometimes have completely reversed results. Some verbal IQ subtests require to understand social situations very well, so NT people are going to outperform autistic people anyway.

League_Girl wrote:
slenkar wrote:
Some IQ tests rely on the person knowing certain things, you can be coached to improve your score.

E.g. an IQ test that I did as a 12 year old had a few questions where you had to notice patterns in number sequences, I later learned that in another school they coached the kids on how to do these problems.

109 is above average, BTW



I thought 115 and up is above average and 90-114 is average.

If 109 is above average, one could argue that 101 is above average and that would be valid...
What is considered above average is + 1 σ and higher (115 + on Wechsler's scale).



ocdgirl123
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24 May 2016, 4:41 pm

I have an above average verbal IQ and a below average performance IQ. Maybe I have NVLD?


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24 May 2016, 4:51 pm

Some people on the autism spectrum are super good with visual stuff, others suck at it. It's very often an extreme. As for me, I scored VERY high on verbal intelligence, pretty good on visual intelligence, somewhat bad on processing speed, and pretty low on working memory. Can't really divide that into verbal versus performance. I drive the psychologists nuts.


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League_Girl
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24 May 2016, 5:24 pm

Quote:
What are your sources ?


One example:

http://mugsy.org/spd.htm

Quote:
Also children with semantic pragmatic difficulties do better on performance IQ tests than verbal IQ tests, whereas with children with Asperger syndrome the results tend to be the other way round.



So I do better with performance than I do with verbal but it says aspies usually have it the other way around.


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MissAlgernon
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24 May 2016, 5:48 pm

The problem is that a lot of people, even NTs, have a higher, sometimes much higher verbal IQ and such a profile doesn't show any neurodevelopmental disorder in itself, unless if the difference is extreme in particular subtests. On the contrary, higher performance IQ, or even equally high performance IQ for an extremely high IQ, is something rare and often goes with other types of autism, not always but still often. Although it depends on what subtests have the highest and lowest scores.
I'll be honest, there are so many neurodevelopmental disorders, and so many rare ones, that as soon as somebody has an atypical IQ profile and social difficulties, the person is going to get an aspie diagnosis without checking the possibility that there might be something else, or even that their profile matches something else... For example, in my area, almost no one talks about NVLD. Even neurologists rarely do. I think that we'll get much more interesting results if we get more biological data to make a diagnosis in the future. Some people diagnosed as aspies have something else, and some people who pass as NTs are aspies. From what I've seen, current results on IQ profiles and autism are inconclusive for the most part, and this might change in the future once there is more accurate data and people receive a better diagnosis.
Right now, the only thing I know that is correlated with some types of autism and is almost never seen in NTs is very high scores in some specific performance tests combined with a relatively lower verbal IQ. Simply because NTs almost never get such high scores in these subtests, even those with a very high IQ.



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24 May 2016, 9:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
My IQ is higher than average, and I passed the spatial recognition portion of the ASVAB in the 99th percentile.

I hope that the OP didn't mean all Aspies ...


Same here. I've noticed many aspies in tech fields have exceedingly good spatial & spacial recognition skills. However, I wonder if as a group they're actually a minority of HFA's?


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25 May 2016, 3:24 pm

I've heard that autism means Performance IQ > Verbal IQ, and Asperger's means Performance IQ < Verbal IQ. My VIQ apparently is somewhat high, while my PIQ is lower.

I guess it would make sense in a way that those of use who think verbally will have a higher VIQ? Would that hold true for the rest of you? Or maybe it's just me.


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