Former-Muslim atheists are getting bolder, and growing....

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Line and verse?

Where did Jesus say that?

You might well find something like that in the Old Testament, but I dont see how that topic would even have come up in the New Testament.

.....

AspE, the OP hasn't converted to Christianity.

So what?

I didn't, but I wish that muslims would convert to anything else.

Brainwashing of the crowd by the rulers....

which was ironically a product of secular islamic presence/contact/influence

that's what's curious about it. islamic culture did have its renaissance, and the world as we know it today simply wouldn't have been possible without it. and then enlightened islamic culture died and islam became a zombie apocalypse. why did that happen?


isn't there a way to gradually promote a metaphorical understanding of the quran until islam eventually becomes a merely cultural thing, like it largely happened with the old testament and catholicism?

i can see how it would be more complicated though, even if it's possible. for one thing, the hebrews were much more outlandish with their stories. any minimally sensible person can see how those narratives are just vivid allegory, or at the very least something that doesn't apply to our current reality. also the bible is a highly heterogenous compilation from different times and places. there's also the linguistic factor. you can't claim any monolingual version of the bible to be 100% faithful to the original, and only very few scholars are capable of reading "the original"

also it's not even clear if jesus even wanted to found a new universal movement/religion. afaik the only thing that can be historically deduced is that he was a reformist against the convoluted hebrew bureaucracy of the time and its social implications. and he was anything but clear with most everything he said. christianity first spread as an underground movement

all that being said... do these differences really make it impossible that the same "metaphorization" could happen in islam? isn't there a loophole?


that's another thing that i just don't understand. how did anyone ever come to believe that islam was supposed to be universal, when it's so blatantly clearly a local and culturally-specific thing? how do muslims even do ramadan in scandinavia when it falls on summer months?

Good!

Why didnt you just say "I AspE got it wrong about what Jesus said"?

Wouldnt that have been simpler than citing an irrelevant line of scripture that doesnt even resemble what you claimed Jesus said?

Its common knowledge that Jesus encouraged slaves to "obey their masters". Thats not the issue.

Not defending Christianity, nor any religion. But facts are facts.

The fact is, Jesus acknowledged slavery and didn't say a thing against it. He even suggested the proper way to beat them. I was right. Jesus was cool with it.

No.
You were dead wrong.

We were talking about a specific aspect of slavery. Not about slavery in general.



You said Jesus specifically advocated taking women as sexual slaves in warfare ( like that modern muslim lady claimed that Islam advocates).

I never said Jesus was not down with slavery in general. I said Jesus did not say anything about sexual slavery of Gentile women taken in war. The Hebrews were not involved in aggressive warfare at the time anyway. So the subject wouldnt have even come up the way it might have at some points in the Old Testament when the Hebrews were first seizing the holly land and doing genocide and ethic cleansing of the Canaanites a thousand years before Jesus.

You failed to find scripture to support your claim, nor that disproved what I said.

Epic fail.

slavery was practically a universal facet of society at the time. i guess most people think of modern-era slavery (africans brought to the americas) when they hear the word, but that was just one of the (arguably most brutal and bizarrely anachronistic) forms of it throughout history. there were citizens, and there were non-citizens. the idea of equality of rights was nearly unthinkable at the time. it would probably be akin to a utopian notion of mandatory equal income for all people nowadays

preaching against slavery wouldn't mean preaching equality, but rioting instead

Translation:

Secularism:
It's the system that muslim arabs die to forbid it in their own countries, yet they die later to reach the countries that adopt it.

Translation: Someone told me that Donald Trump is giving Muslims three choices: To adopt Christianity or to pay Jizya tax or to leave America, otherwise it will be a battle! omfg!! He is so racist!

Note: That's an indirect criticism on Mohammad who applied this policy.

Translation: They taught us in schools that Medieval Europe, in their darkest era, was used to persecute their freethinkers of blasphemy yet they forgot to tell us....

Ibn al-Muqaffa was cut in pieces...his limbs were cut, one by one, and burned before his eyes, till he died.
and Al Suhrawardī was killed...
and Ja'd ibn Dirham was slayed....
and Lisan ad-Din ibn al-Khatib was suffocated...
and the books of the Al Asfahani and Ibn el Rushd had been burned...

and those were all declared as kafirs: Al Kanadi, Al Farabi, Al Razi, Ibn Sina, Ibn Battouta, Al Idrissi, Ibn Khaldoun, Ibn Hayan, Bashar bin Bard, Al Khwarizmi, Ibn el Rushd, Al Jahiz, Al Sahroudi, Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya, Al Ghazali, Al Ma'arri, Ibn el Fared, Alhazen, Ibn el Rawandi, al Tawhidi, and Omr el Khiyam...and ...and ...and...