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frag
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16 Jun 2016, 7:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
frag wrote:
Just having a look at WP, not been here for six years. Rerealized this gender thing. Saying you need to be one of the genders is like saying you can only be NT in this world. It is denial of the obvious. I have several trans friends and I also have an intersex friend, the latter one actually has cells with XX and cells with XY. I guess they wouldn't be welcome here.
Based on what? Again, there are alternatives to declaring anything in your profile.

Better yet, why not start a website of your own, and dedicate it to all of your LGBTQ friends? That way, you would be certain to have a warm, friendly environment that is perfectly suited for them, and no one would have any reason to complain.

Alex did just that for the ASD community, and look how well it's turned out!

Well, except for the whiners, spammers, and trolls, that is ...


You HAVE to choose male or female.

And I do have my own web page.

You think I am a troll and a whiner for having a need to be accepted for what I am? Fine, there are loads like you who are against acceptance and progress. I'm used to your kind. Please carry on.



Sweetleaf
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16 Jun 2016, 7:43 pm

I don't think it would be a bad idea for this website to have other options aside from male and female for those who don't identify as either. Plenty of other websites have updated their options to reflect current knowledge on gender identity and that not everyone is born as the male or female sex, there's quite a few cases of people in between somewhere.


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Fnord
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17 Jun 2016, 6:46 am

frag wrote:
You think I am a troll and a whiner for having a need to be accepted for what I am
Where did I say that? Don't be lying about me.

frag wrote:
Fine, there are loads like you who are against acceptance and progress
Again, a lie.

frag wrote:
I'm used to your kind
Exactly what kind is that?

frag wrote:
Please carry on
I always have.


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Fnord
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17 Jun 2016, 6:50 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't think it would be a bad idea for this website to have other options aside from male and female for those who don't identify as either. Plenty of other websites have updated their options to reflect current knowledge on gender identity and that not everyone is born as the male or female sex, there's quite a few cases of people in between somewhere.
We've been over this ... it is up to Alex to implement any changes, since this website belongs to him. He is not inclined to essentially re-design a whole new website to change one insignificant detail that can easily be overcome by use of the signature line.

Why don't people employ the simple solution, instead of getting all worked up about something else entirely - something that is completely out of their control? Why do people demand that the world change for them, when they could change their own situation with just a little effort?


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LittleLu
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17 Jun 2016, 7:41 am

Although you and I have had some recent contentions Fnord, I think you're right about all this. You make some very valid points.

I left two different websites because I didn't agree with how they were run, so I made my own. It's actually, really not that hard to design a closed community website on a low budget where you can pull in your friends and hang out and do and be whatever you want.


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AspE
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17 Jun 2016, 8:32 am

Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't think it would be a bad idea for this website to have other options aside from male and female for those who don't identify as either. Plenty of other websites have updated their options to reflect current knowledge on gender identity and that not everyone is born as the male or female sex, there's quite a few cases of people in between somewhere.
We've been over this ... it is up to Alex to implement any changes, since this website belongs to him. He is not inclined to essentially re-design a whole new website to change one insignificant detail that can easily be overcome by use of the signature line.

Why don't people employ the simple solution, instead of getting all worked up about something else entirely - something that is completely out of their control? Why do people demand that the world change for them, when they could change their own situation with just a little effort?

It's symbolic, but it's important, because the question disrespects non-traditional gender identity. Of course, I don't expect Alex to be very IT savvy, that doesn't seem to be his thing. But it shouldn't be that difficult.



Fnord
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17 Jun 2016, 8:47 am

AspE wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't think it would be a bad idea for this website to have other options aside from male and female for those who don't identify as either. Plenty of other websites have updated their options to reflect current knowledge on gender identity and that not everyone is born as the male or female sex, there's quite a few cases of people in between somewhere.
We've been over this ... it is up to Alex to implement any changes, since this website belongs to him. He is not inclined to essentially re-design a whole new website to change one insignificant detail that can easily be overcome by use of the signature line. Why don't people employ the simple solution, instead of getting all worked up about something else entirely - something that is completely out of their control? Why do people demand that the world change for them, when they could change their own situation with just a little effort?
It's symbolic, but it's important, because the question disrespects non-traditional gender identity. Of course, I don't expect Alex to be very IT savvy, that doesn't seem to be his thing. But it shouldn't be that difficult.
There is more effort involved than just re-typing a line of code. He would have to re-design and re-compile the entire page, and then re-integrate it back into the website. This is a lot of work for one person, especially one who has a life outside of website management.

It's easier - and more socially responsible - to spread the effort around and rely on people's willingness to adapt and use the already-available features to accomplish the same thing.

Why should anyone complain about a closed window when a door is already open? :roll:


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AspE
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17 Jun 2016, 8:57 am

I'm sure some of us are computer literate enough to help out. Writing an addendum in a signature is OK, but the binary label still pops up on every single post. It would be a nice gesture of solidarity. Are you opposed to that if it would inconvenience anyone slightly?



Fnord
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17 Jun 2016, 9:54 am

AspE wrote:
I'm sure some of us are computer literate enough to help out. Writing an addendum in a signature is OK, but the binary label still pops up on every single post. It would be a nice gesture of solidarity. Are you opposed to that if it would inconvenience anyone slightly?
I am not at all opposed to change, but you are talking about a website owned by one person who so far does not seem inclined to make insignificant changes. Take it up with Alex if you think that it's important. Otherwise, there is always the sig line option.

Or are you opposed to that if it would inconvenience you slightly?


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AspE
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17 Jun 2016, 10:10 am

It's not that it's inconvenient, it's that it leaves the problem existing. What are you defending here? Alex's free time?



green0star
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17 Jun 2016, 10:14 am

Yea, you guys need to get with the program here at WP. Even my anime list has an optional choice of non binary.



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17 Jun 2016, 12:06 pm

C2V wrote:
Oooo, make that very loosely. Just because someone is a man doesn't stop him from being intimate, gentle, or not particularly into sports, or precludes him from being a nurse. Just because someone is woman doesn't make her incapable of being fierce, methodical, cool natured, or a rugby player for that matter.
Making people into caricatures based on their sexual organs is never helpful, in my opinion.
My biological sex as well as gender identification are male. My interests diversify from there. But as for being intimate, gentle and hate sports and like to take care of people, well...that's me. Hard to do, and I do mean my immediate family. But, I do like to make others feel better.

And, quite frankly, women are much fiercer than men in my experience. Men may be more powerful on average just by size and strength, but I would not want to go up against any woman that is really ticked off. Mentally, physically, in any way. Once that line is crossed by a woman, and I have seen it, and I do not mean every woman, but wow.... I do not want to be around that again.


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Fnord
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17 Jun 2016, 1:36 pm

AspE wrote:
It's not that it's inconvenient, it's that it leaves the problem existing. What are you defending here? Alex's free time?
YES. It's his website, not ours, and he charges no one any money to access it. In fact, no one is being forced to even log on!

Your participation on this website is voluntary. So is Alex's. He doesn't even have to respond to PMs. He could easily shut this whole thing down and not apologize to anyone, if he so chooses - it's his website, and his right.


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stitchingdevil
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17 Jun 2016, 5:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
AspE wrote:
It's not that it's inconvenient, it's that it leaves the problem existing. What are you defending here? Alex's free time?
YES. It's his website, not ours, and he charges no one any money to access it. In fact, no one is being forced to even log on!

Your participation on this website is voluntary. So is Alex's. He doesn't even have to respond to PMs. He could easily shut this whole thing down and not apologize to anyone, if he so chooses - it's his website, and his right.


I am curious. Do you personally know the owner of this website? I ask this question because your response seems like you personally know them and therefore are speaking for them.

I have just joined today and was surprised that I had to choose a binary option in order to register on this site, many sites only require an email, username, and birthdate and do not ask for sex or gender unless you want to specify on profile or so forth or simply for registration purposes only and do not place it anywhere else. I do not know the origins of this site or where the owner hails from, but I can understand the frustration of having to put a binary sex under a gender tab when an individual is intersex, transgender, or nonbinary, especially if the individual lives in a country where LGBTQIA are not treated equal, it can be considered oppressive and discriminatory. So the site that encourages progressive support of AS individuals from all places and walks of life (which also includes individuals of the nonbinary spectrum) can seem a bit counterintuitive.

My next question is has anyone spoken with the developer in regards to updating the site to be more inclusive? I am very curious to know what the response was. If the problem is lack of time and ability, that's an easy solution and I'm sure many would be happy to step up and assist with the task of giving the site a much needed update. There are many people who are developers that would be happy to volunteer, it's just a matter of asking for that assistance if one is not able.

And yes, it's true that the developer could just shut down the site and if so, I'm sure a new one would be born from the people who have enjoyed their time here. There probably is already other sites that I am not aware of that are more inclusive of people on all spectrums of AS and gender, but from what I'm getting here, this site has been here for quite some time, people have come to love it, and it was probably before a time that recognized transgender/nonbinary individuals, but the times have now changed and people want to keep up with the times and better the site by having it more inclusive or to at least have the privacy to not have to state a sex or gender if not desired/at their own discretion, because why does someone have to know your biological sex or your gender identification? Shouldn't that actually be left to the user's discretion?

I'm actually surprised this is an issue here since from what I've been researching AS individuals in particular are more likely to have a anima/animus, where they don't see themselves as male or female or aspects of both, so it's very puzzling to have such static representations here so to speak when we're already all on a spectrum.



Zylon
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17 Jun 2016, 8:43 pm

zkydz, I noticed that your gender is missing under your avatar. How did you accomplish that??



zkydz
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17 Jun 2016, 8:57 pm

I have no idea.....I never noticed......

edit....I just looked and noticed that, for some reason, the gender select is still on select. Not changing it either...nyah, nyah....LOL


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Diagnosed April 14, 2016
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RAADS-R -- 213.3
FQ -- 18.7
EQ -- 13
Aspie Quiz -- 186 out of 200
AQ: 42
AQ-10: 8.8