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RetroGamer87
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12 Mar 2017, 9:08 am

Who said Western culture started in America?


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BettaPonic
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12 Mar 2017, 9:25 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Who said Western culture started in America?

I was giving an example of a western country with a high non-white population. England is about 80 percent white.



RetroGamer87
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12 Mar 2017, 9:43 am

I get it. You're saying western culture can be found in non-white countries. That's ok, culture originating outside of the west can be found in America. The melting of culture is a beautiful thing. My point is that Western culture started with white folks.

I don't believe anyone can or should own culture. Like all culture western culture belongs to the whole world but it's wrong to say there's no white culture. Us white folks even have our own music like this for example.


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12 Mar 2017, 9:49 am

BettaPonic wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
There is no "white" culture.


But there is a black and hispanic culture? You've absorbed too much self-hating propaganda if you believe that. Yes, there is most definitely an American culture which includes other races but the biggest part of that is white America.


I'm curious, what would be an example of white culture?


He just provided an example. Within the context, "X culture", as used when talking about "black culture" or "Asian culture", is typically an over-simplified generalisation of the perception of cultural differences found within identified subcultures within the US. They're marked out by how they differ to the cultural norms of America, which would, by extension, be considered "white culture" within the flawed model being used.

More accurate is to state that the wider culture in America is formed of the wide range of different subcultures which have influenced and adapted to one another within it. Black, white, Asian, European, African, etc are not monolithic cultural groups and certainly do not exist within cultural vacuums. The entire premise of "X culture" is flawed, as is the notion that "cultural appropriation" is somehow a negative thing.

BettaPonic wrote:
This is probably a problem of mine, but I tend to group what other people call a culture into separate cultures. I don't think America has a Native American, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc culture. I tend to lean towards area being more of a culture.


Indeed. So it would be far more appropriate to talk about e.g. "Irish culture" rather than "white culture", with further refinements to "Dublin culture" and then "Bray culture".

I would be more likely for race to play no part in it. For example Chicago culture or NOVA culture.


You can't eradicate race completely from culture. The geographical regions we call nations are partially informed by the historic racial and ideological homogeneity (broadly speaking) within them, regardless of the integration of new peoples and ideas. It's such a dynamic and fluid process, however, that it's impossible to find anything close to "pure" racial culture short of discovering small isolated tribes of peoples in deepest, darkest Africa.



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12 Mar 2017, 9:50 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I get it. You're saying western culture can be found in non-white countries. That's ok, culture originating outside of the west can be found in America. The melting of culture is a beautiful thing. My point is that Western culture started with white folks.

I don't believe anyone can or should own culture. Like all culture western culture belongs to the whole world but it's wrong to say there's no white culture. Us white folks even have our own music like this for example.



Bach's music was divinely inspired by the figurehead of a religion which predates the Western culture which it influenced. Christianity didn't start with white Europeans.



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12 Mar 2017, 9:58 am

adifferentname wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
I get it. You're saying western culture can be found in non-white countries. That's ok, culture originating outside of the west can be found in America. The melting of culture is a beautiful thing. My point is that Western culture started with white folks.

I don't believe anyone can or should own culture. Like all culture western culture belongs to the whole world but it's wrong to say there's no white culture. Us white folks even have our own music like this for example.



Bach's music was divinely inspired by the figurehead of a religion which predates the Western culture which it influenced. Christianity didn't start with white Europeans.


Of course, Western culture was never developed in isolation, not even in ancient times. Nor should it be isolated.

It would be especially hard to isolate Western culture from the Near East because the Near East is so close to Greece, as the name implies.

This is of little importance but I'm not sure if Western culture really predates the Abrahamic god. While Geneologies put old Abraham at around 1700 BC, the origin of the Old Testiment is much later, somewhere between 1000 BC and 600 BC when Judaism started seperating itself from more ancient religions, around about the time Western culture was starting up with the likes of Aesop followed by Homer.


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Last edited by RetroGamer87 on 12 Mar 2017, 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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12 Mar 2017, 10:20 am

It's quite possible that "Western Culture" started with the Indo-Europeans, especially the branch which ultimately ended up in Europe and the "Near East."

They only thought of themselves as "white" as a comparison with other, sometimes nearby cultures, where the skin color was relatively darker.

The disdain for the darker-skinned cultures emanated from their very "alien-ness." There was a similar disdain for "barbarian" cultures which contained people of even lighter skin color than themselves.

Color prejudice came about because of "negro slavery." It was always much stronger and more complex in the Americas than the European version of race/color prejudice.



RetroGamer87
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12 Mar 2017, 10:28 am

^ Very true.

I'm sure Vivaldi was darker than I am but he was still Western.


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BettaPonic
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12 Mar 2017, 1:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's quite possible that "Western Culture" started with the Indo-Europeans, especially the branch which ultimately ended up in Europe and the "Near East."

They only thought of themselves as "white" as a comparison with other, sometimes nearby cultures, where the skin color was relatively darker.

The disdain for the darker-skinned cultures emanated from their very "alien-ness." There was a similar disdain for "barbarian" cultures which contained people of even lighter skin color than themselves.

Color prejudice came about because of "negro slavery." It was always much stronger and more complex in the Americas than the European version of race/color prejudice.

I remember reading about how all the different races were classified as different species. The African slavery movement was started by the Muslim world. I agree that alien cultures tend to not get along. The racial hierarchy was weird. Even among European population different groups hated different groups. The Irish were hated by Europeans to the point of letting them starve.



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21 Mar 2017, 6:03 pm

Student Allegedly Attacked Female Basketball Player Because Her Hairstyle Was ‘Cultural Appropriation’

Authorities charged a Hampshire College student with assaulting a member of Central Maine Community College's basketball team over a dispute about cultural appropriation. Really.

The Hampshire student, 20-year-old Carmen Figueroa, allegedly started a fight because the basketball player had braided her hair in a manner that upset Figueroa. She walked up to the visiting player—during a basketball game—and demanded that the player remove the braids from her hair, according to masslive.com.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/20/stude ... ale-basket


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kraftiekortie
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21 Mar 2017, 6:26 pm

That's asinine.....but that's not what most "liberals" think.

Only the really kooky ones.



BettaPonic
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21 Mar 2017, 7:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
That's asinine.....but that's not what most "liberals" think.

Only the really kooky ones.

I have seen quite a few people not on this level, but saying white people cannot wear dreadlocks.



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21 Mar 2017, 8:04 pm

BettaPonic wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
That's asinine.....but that's not what most "liberals" think.

Only the really kooky ones.

I have seen quite a few people not on this level, but saying white people cannot wear dreadlocks.

Only the kooks -- like these?

Pitzer College RA Tells White Girls to Stop Wearing Hoop Earrings: It’s Cultural Appropriation

A residential advisor at Pitzer College sent a campus-wide email informing students—white women, in particular—that they should stop wearing hoop earrings.

Hooped earrings "actually come from a historical background of oppression and exclusion," wrote Alegria Martinez, according to The Claremont Independent. "Why should white girls be able to take part in this culture?"

The email was intended to serve as an explanation for the appearance of a message, "White girl take off your hoops!! !" on Pitzer's free speech wall. In her email to campus, Martinez identified herself as one of the authors of the message....

Another student, Jacquelyn Aguilera, also took credit for the message, and sent her own email:

"If you didn't create the culture as a coping mechanism for marginalization, take off those hoops, if your feminism isn't intersectional take off those hoops, if you try to wear mi cultura when the creators can no longer afford it, take off those hoops, if you are incapable of using a search engine and expect other people to educate you, take off those hoops, if you can't pronounce my name or spell it … take off those hoops / I use "those" instead of "your" because hoops were never "yours" to begin with."

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/10/pitze ... girls-to-s


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21 Mar 2017, 8:57 pm

Darmok wrote:
BettaPonic wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
That's asinine.....but that's not what most "liberals" think.

Only the really kooky ones.

I have seen quite a few people not on this level, but saying white people cannot wear dreadlocks.

Only the kooks -- like these?

Pitzer College RA Tells White Girls to Stop Wearing Hoop Earrings: It’s Cultural Appropriation

A residential advisor at Pitzer College sent a campus-wide email informing students—white women, in particular—that they should stop wearing hoop earrings.

Hooped earrings "actually come from a historical background of oppression and exclusion," wrote Alegria Martinez, according to The Claremont Independent. "Why should white girls be able to take part in this culture?"

The email was intended to serve as an explanation for the appearance of a message, "White girl take off your hoops!! !" on Pitzer's free speech wall. In her email to campus, Martinez identified herself as one of the authors of the message....

Another student, Jacquelyn Aguilera, also took credit for the message, and sent her own email:

"If you didn't create the culture as a coping mechanism for marginalization, take off those hoops, if your feminism isn't intersectional take off those hoops, if you try to wear mi cultura when the creators can no longer afford it, take off those hoops, if you are incapable of using a search engine and expect other people to educate you, take off those hoops, if you can't pronounce my name or spell it … take off those hoops / I use "those" instead of "your" because hoops were never "yours" to begin with."

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/10/pitze ... girls-to-s
being selfish is neither novel nor a mental illness, even if it's done behind the guise of cultural protectionism.



kraftiekortie
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21 Mar 2017, 9:09 pm

It's still kooky, and should be thought of as that.

You don't see this sort of thing in the general society.

Lots of this sort of crap happens on college campuses.



RetroGamer87
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22 Mar 2017, 7:07 am

Telling white students they can't wear hoop earrings? So that's one rule for one race and one rule for another. Rules based on race.

It seems like when the SJWs attempt to reduce racism they end up increasing it.


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