Page 67 of 108 [ 1723 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 ... 108  Next

Piobaire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
Location: Smackass Gap, NC

18 Jan 2018, 4:20 pm

Quote:
The_Walrus

“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
Thomas Paine



XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

18 Jan 2018, 4:34 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
That's not a very good definition. By that definition, "black people have more melanin in their skin than white people" would be racist, because it's a distinction based solely on race, and I think we can agree that such a statement is not racist. A racist statement suggests that a race is biologically inferior or superior to another one

By this very definition, your statement about the superior level of melanin is racist. Or at least it's not more and not less racist than a statement about some race's superior sport endurance or intellect.

The_Walrus wrote:
White privilege doesn't say that white people should be treated better than non-white people, it just says that they are treated better.

Being a white guy who is not treated better in any way, I can say that this is just a lie. And it is racist.

And by the way:
Quote:
Racist content (anything that suggests one race is superior to another) is disallowed, regardless of whether the poster thinks it is true.



XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

18 Jan 2018, 4:36 pm

Piobaire wrote:
“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
Thomas Paine

That's so true.



kamiyu910
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,036
Location: California

18 Jan 2018, 5:37 pm

XenoMind wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
White privilege doesn't say that white people should be treated better than non-white people, it just says that they are treated better.

Being a white guy who is not treated better in any way, I can say that this is just a lie. And it is racist.


The term, "white privilege," in and of itself is not racist, it's how people use it and mean it. When they claim that all white people have this white privilege, they are then being racist, because they are then claiming that all white people get treated the same as other white people and making them a monolith, while ignoring serious social issues that go on in poor white communities.

There is no white privilege here where I live. We're a majority non-white area, and the people who get "privilege" based on race are typically Hispanic. Like cater to like. That's all it is. White people get all sorts of s**t dropped on them here, not to mention how racist Hispanics can be towards black people (those two demographics are usually the ones found fighting the most - we've had some serious gang fights between them)

Or are people honestly saying a black man will cater to a white man over another black man? Do you know how horribly that first black man would be treated if it was found he catered to the white man? No one wants to be white. That's why education is tossed to the side, cuz that's a white people thing.


_________________
Your Aspie score: 171 of 200
Your Neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 40 of 200


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,237
Location: Long Island, New York

18 Jan 2018, 8:20 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
That's not a very good definition. By that definition, "black people have more melanin in their skin than white people" would be racist, because it's a distinction based solely on race, and I think we can agree that such a statement is not racist.

Saying white people have less melanin is a statement of fact. "White privilege" is making or implying an assumption about every white person. "Check your privilege" is an implied accusation.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,789
Location: London

19 Jan 2018, 1:22 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
The term, "white privilege," in and of itself is not racist, it's how people use it and mean it. When they claim that all white people have this white privilege, they are then being racist, because they are then claiming that all white people get treated the same as other white people and making them a monolith, while ignoring serious social issues that go on in poor white communities.

That's simply not true. The sorts of people who acknowledge the existence of white privilege are also usually the sorts of people who most readily talk about the advantages of being born rich, male, cis, hetero, having political power, access to cheap healthy food, access to public transport, access to affordable healthcare, access to quality schools, good parents, having your narrative portrayed sympathetically in the media, and so forth.

You've talked a lot about how you feel your region of California is more favourable to Hispanics than whites (I'm guessing you're talking about olive-skinned Spanish speakers, who may or may not be considered white depending on the context but in your context apparently aren't). Obviously a great deal of life experience has gone into forming that opinion. But what are the statistics like for employment? Wages? Life expectancy? Chances of being arrested or charged for drug possession, controlling for rate of use? Chances of surviving an encounter with a police officer? These things are hard to judge for an individual on the ground.



kamiyu910
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,036
Location: California

19 Jan 2018, 1:35 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
The term, "white privilege," in and of itself is not racist, it's how people use it and mean it. When they claim that all white people have this white privilege, they are then being racist, because they are then claiming that all white people get treated the same as other white people and making them a monolith, while ignoring serious social issues that go on in poor white communities.

That's simply not true. The sorts of people who acknowledge the existence of white privilege are also usually the sorts of people who most readily talk about the advantages of being born rich, male, cis, hetero, having political power, access to cheap healthy food, access to public transport, access to affordable healthcare, access to quality schools, good parents, having your narrative portrayed sympathetically in the media, and so forth.

You've talked a lot about how you feel your region of California is more favourable to Hispanics than whites (I'm guessing you're talking about olive-skinned Spanish speakers, who may or may not be considered white depending on the context but in your context apparently aren't). Obviously a great deal of life experience has gone into forming that opinion. But what are the statistics like for employment? Wages? Life expectancy? Chances of being arrested or charged for drug possession, controlling for rate of use? Chances of surviving an encounter with a police officer? These things are hard to judge for an individual on the ground.


Our area is a hell hole, of course :)

Poverty ridden, with San Bernardino having a higher homicide rate per capita than Chicago. And what cops? When the city went bankrupt, the cops all left. Fontana is a little better, but not much, same with the High Desert. We're all in this craphole together and people still are extremely racist.

And since the cops aren't all white, white people don't get some free pass, we're constantly seeing them getting in trouble. Some even get pulled over for no apparent reason. White privilege just doesn't happen here, unless it's another white person giving it. Privilege is something that has to be given, or earned, not something inherent in a mere existence.

We have white people here getting beat up just for being white. Constantly picked on because they're the outliers, bullied, etc. Why is it so hard to believe that they don't have privilege here? They get passed over in favor of Hispanics (unless you're in Compton, then they tend to get chased out of town or passed over for black people). Even in the richer areas, people are more likely to hire a woman or a non-white person over a white male these days. Many of the mayors in this area are non-white and quite a few are non-white women. City councils aren't white either. White people don't hold power here.

And as for what's considered "white." Well, that depends on your definition, since so many people have different definitions! According to the US census, it includes Europeans, North Africans, and Middle Eastern people. According to most people who judge by looks, the majority do not look "white." We have a very diverse population as well, even with the majority being Hispanic. There's a decent sized Korean population, we have immigrants from all over such as the Middle East, India, Ukraine, etc. We have places of worship for just about every religion even.

What makes you think white people are anything here? No one would cater to a white person over one of their own. That's just wrong.


_________________
Your Aspie score: 171 of 200
Your Neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 40 of 200


XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

19 Jan 2018, 4:36 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
The term, "white privilege," in and of itself is not racist

It's racist just by the definition, because it's based on this distinction only: race. Stop trying to call black white, this is really boring and doesn't make any sense.



XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

19 Jan 2018, 4:38 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Saying white people have less melanin is a statement of fact.

And saying that some races have better performance in some areas? You're on a very dangerous road here ;)



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,176
Location: Right over your left shoulder

19 Jan 2018, 5:28 pm

XenoMind wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
The term, "white privilege," in and of itself is not racist

It's racist just by the definition, because it's based on this distinction only: race. Stop trying to call black white, this is really boring and doesn't make any sense.


Clearly there's a disagreement over how 'racism' is defined, but if the posters you're arguing with aren't accepting your definition just repeating it over and over again isn't suddenly going to become a persuasive point in your favour.


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

19 Jan 2018, 5:46 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
but if the posters you're arguing with aren't accepting your definition just repeating it over and over again isn't suddenly going to become a persuasive point in your favour.

That's true. So, please stop trying this on me.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,176
Location: Right over your left shoulder

19 Jan 2018, 5:49 pm

XenoMind wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
but if the posters you're arguing with aren't accepting your definition just repeating it over and over again isn't suddenly going to become a persuasive point in your favour.

That's true. So, please stop trying this on me.


Please stop trying to redefine the term in a way that makes your flawed arguments more viable and I promise to stop reminding you of what you're doing. :wink:


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

19 Jan 2018, 6:02 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Please stop trying to redefine the term in a way that makes your flawed arguments more viable and I promise to stop reminding you of what you're doing. :wink:

Just stop doing the thing that, as you wrote yourself, is wrong to do.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,176
Location: Right over your left shoulder

19 Jan 2018, 6:10 pm

XenoMind wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Please stop trying to redefine the term in a way that makes your flawed arguments more viable and I promise to stop reminding you of what you're doing. :wink:

Just stop doing the thing that, as you wrote yourself, is wrong to do.


So basically your argument has been reduced to 'stop disagreeing with me and accept my redefinition of racism'? :lol:


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


XenoMind
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 684
Location: Absurdistan

19 Jan 2018, 6:12 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
So basically your argument has been reduced to 'stop disagreeing with me and accept my redefinition of racism'? :lol:

No, it's more like this: stop contradicting yourself.
And the second point that I just have to add: stop lying.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 25,176
Location: Right over your left shoulder

19 Jan 2018, 6:23 pm

XenoMind wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So basically your argument has been reduced to 'stop disagreeing with me and accept my redefinition of racism'? :lol:

No, it's more like this: stop contradicting yourself.
And the second point that I just have to add: stop lying.


Try stomping your feet and saying 'I know you are but what am I?' a few more times, it's a very persuasive point.


_________________
"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made... and they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う