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beneficii
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22 Jul 2016, 1:11 am

As Jacoby refuses to answer my question about what he means by "internationalists", I will use the commonly accepted the definition: "a political principle which advocates a greater political or economic cooperation among nations and peoples,[1] and whose ideological roots can be traced to both socialism and liberalism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... _(politics)

Internationalists oppose nationalism and all forms of jingoism and seek to increase the cooperation of different peoples. I consider myself an internationalist.

And Jacoby says I'm killing America.


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Jacoby
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22 Jul 2016, 1:18 am

beneficii wrote:
As Jacoby refuses to answer my question about what he means by "internationalists", I will use the commonly accepted the definition: "a political principle which advocates a greater political or economic cooperation among nations and peoples,[1] and whose ideological roots can be traced to both socialism and liberalism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... _(politics)

Internationalists oppose nationalism and all forms of jingoism and seek to increase the cooperation of different peoples. I consider myself an internationalist.

And Jacoby says I'm killing America.


Do you believe in these job killing trade deals? Do you believe in these 'humanitarian' wars? Do you support open borders and unrestricted immigration? Do you supports soveirgnty stealing transnational organizations like the WTO and IMF? If you do then well... :roll:



Dox47
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22 Jul 2016, 1:20 am

I like that Trump has a lot of enemies, it means that as POTUS he couldn't actually do much, as he'd have opposition from both parties, where as Hillary would get a pass from the left side of the aisle no matter what she did, and likely trigger a GOP wave in congress. My feeling is that Trump would be less dangerous in office and make SCOTUS picks that are more acceptable to me, even though I oppose most of what he stands for. That, and it's about time this particular apple cart got kicked over.


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chessboxer
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22 Jul 2016, 6:48 am

beneficii wrote:
Good article:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-com ... bout-trump

Basically, politicians like Trump associate cosmopolitanism with decadence, weakness. When they say "let's take America back" or "let's make America great again" they are saying let us end its cosmopolitanism and turn it back into the homogeneous, conformist society of their fantasies, a society that never actually existed.

This isn't the first time in history political groups have pushed this to dismantle the society they oppose. The Weimar Republic itself, a highly cosmopolitan society of great intellectual fervor and change that was defamed as decadent by its enemies, was murdered not just by the authoritarians but by the conservatives themselves who pursued fantasy.


Oh what a surprise - a Jewish journalist praises "cosmopolitanism" and compares the latest politician he doesn't like to Hitler, then he gets his article shared on a forum by a gullible liberal who adds on that tired old cliché about "fantasies about a past that never existed" for good measure.

(That cliché is especially pathetic seeing as liberals will condemn America's "white supremacist" past when it suits them. Why bother with consistency, right? Any BS talking point will do, right? Whatever sounds good at any given moment.)



beneficii
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23 Jul 2016, 1:29 am

Jacoby,

(Keep in mind, there are no quotes bc Captcha won't let me make posts containing quotes, no matter how many times I move back to my post, hit submit, and pass the Captcha.)

I don't have a problem with open borders and I think some transnational organizations can do a lot of good with the authority charged to them by their states parties. These things aren't killing America, except perhaps some fantasy of America.

As for trade, we can certainly do a better job of making sure overseas workers get a fair shake so they don't undercut Americans.

Overall, in this day and age I support policies that allow for borders being less of a barrier. Americans need to get with the program and join the majority of the world population that is multilingual. We need to learn about each other more and realize we're all not so different from each other.


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beneficii
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23 Jul 2016, 1:33 am

chessboxer,

You sound like a white supremacist, and an antisemite to boot.

They're not doing that we have and still must deal racism. What they're saying is that America has always been more cosmopolitan than many Trump supporters believe.


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shlaifu
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23 Jul 2016, 4:34 pm

Jacoby wrote:
AspE wrote:
Does anyone think it's likely that the GOP will give up representing the interests of corporate power? How can you promise prosperity and then force everything we consume to be more expensive? Walmart is just about an American Value by now, and globalism is their business plan.


Corporate power won't give up since it benefits them to support both parties but it seems clear that they have moved against Trump. Globalism makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, it is not a fair deal and they need us more than we need them. I don't want to sacrifice our quality of life, I don't to averaged out with the third world because means down down down! They try to make us fear the consequences of not doing what they want but again they need us more than we need them, the consequences is that these .0001%ers will lose a whole bunch of money that they've robbed from the working people over the course of the last 40 years. We need jobs, we need a manufacturing base, we need security, we don't need cheap crap from China.


please use the term (globalized) capitalism instead of globalism, that would make it more precise.
And I agree with that.
I dislike Trump, but there's a point in sying: there is an alternative.
I just wish it wasn't Trump. And I'm not sure whether he actually could stick to his word, and I'm pretty sure he'd go about things in the wrong way, making things worse. But: he is, for now, posing as an alternative in a world, in which we're being told, that there is no alternative.

that's what the brexit was about: voting, just to show that there is an alternative. although, it aeems right now, they're making deals and negotiations to make sure that the vote for an alternative won't have an effect.
I'm also no fan of the brits leaving the EU and the nationalism and all that stuff. but people asked for an alternative to the globalization. loud and clear-ish


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23 Jul 2016, 4:39 pm

Any free trade agreement dismantles your home country's job opportunities and employment, merely for a temporary 'drop' in price for some goods. Trump has a point with that, I admit.


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