26 Jul 2016, 12:21 am
GGPViper wrote:
Yes, they are forcing people who don't need insurance to buy it.
However, that's a negative.
Now these people have to fork over monthly premiums to insurance companies for something they don't need.
They are forcing GEN Y to pay for the health care of the much richer Baby Boomer generation.
I think the young will revolt.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 12:23 am
26 Jul 2016, 12:25 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 12:29 am
luan78zao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm sorry, but you really think Obama is less intelligent than Bush?!?!
That might be a difficult case to make. In that instance let's say "no smarter than."
So you don't dispute the rest of my observations then?
Quote:
And as much as I dislike Hilary Clinton, she's hardly a Stalinist. And I'd hardly call Trump a Nazi - a Fascist in the Italian tradition, maybe, but hardly a Nazi.
Your reading skills need work.
Being that Bush got us into an unjustifiable war, without realizing that Iraqis were divided on religious an ethnic lines, I'd say that alone speaks volumes about Bush's lack of intelligence.
And as you conservatives are always accusing Clinton of being a Stalinist, I dare say my misreading was justified.
26 Jul 2016, 12:41 am
26 Jul 2016, 12:42 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 12:49 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 12:52 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Address that, and give me a viable solution to Obamacare, and I might change my mind.
In six years, I've never seen you change your mind on anything. I've seen you concede before facts when it's been shown you were mistaken, but never actually change a position, and certainly not to a GOP supported one, as you seem to define yourself by your opposition to them.
Before you even try a a tu quoque argument, I've reversed my position on outsourcing, support much more social welfare, and have become much less hawkish generally in my time here; what issue have you changed on?
Kraichgauer wrote:
But seriously, the real reason why conservatives oppose Obamacare is because they think poor people are getting a free ride at tax payer expense, without considering how those poor people would otherwise die.
You're still a terrible mind reader, conservative opposition to Obamacare comes down to being forced to do something by the state and higher taxes, no need to make up sinister motivations for people you don't know.
You have yet to show an alternative to Obamacare - short of universal healthcare.
And boo hoo, people with money have to spend tax money on those who can't afford medical care. How tragically persecuted they are for having to pay taxes to keep other people alive!! !
26 Jul 2016, 1:06 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
You have yet to show an alternative to Obamacare - short of universal healthcare.
And boo hoo, people with money have to spend tax money on those who can't afford medical care. How tragically persecuted they are for having to pay taxes to keep other people alive!! !
And boo hoo, people with money have to spend tax money on those who can't afford medical care. How tragically persecuted they are for having to pay taxes to keep other people alive!! !
I have repeatedly, your famous memory is just performing as it usually does when it comes to things I say.
Keep yucking it up, I doubt you'll find the complaints of others so funny when they vote Trump in, or failing that, a GOP wave in congress in response to a Clinton presidency. Funny thing about Trump supporters; as much as the media says they're about racism, I've found them mostly united in their hatred of smug liberals, the kind that poo poo their concerns when they're not outright smearing them with lies. Got to say, I see their point on that.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 1:33 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
You have yet to show an alternative to Obamacare - short of universal healthcare.
And boo hoo, people with money have to spend tax money on those who can't afford medical care. How tragically persecuted they are for having to pay taxes to keep other people alive!! !
And boo hoo, people with money have to spend tax money on those who can't afford medical care. How tragically persecuted they are for having to pay taxes to keep other people alive!! !
I have repeatedly, your famous memory is just performing as it usually does when it comes to things I say.
Keep yucking it up, I doubt you'll find the complaints of others so funny when they vote Trump in, or failing that, a GOP wave in congress in response to a Clinton presidency. Funny thing about Trump supporters; as much as the media says they're about racism, I've found them mostly united in their hatred of smug liberals, the kind that poo poo their concerns when they're not outright smearing them with lies. Got to say, I see their point on that.
Now, now, let's not be so thin skinned.
26 Jul 2016, 1:35 am
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The end doesn't justify the means? You still haven't addressed the situation of millions of Americans being denied medical coverage, either for poverty, or preexisting conditions. Address that, and give me a viable solution to Obamacare, and I might change my mind.
But seriously, the real reason why conservatives oppose Obamacare is because they think poor people are getting a free ride at tax payer expense, without considering how those poor people would otherwise die.
But seriously, the real reason why conservatives oppose Obamacare is because they think poor people are getting a free ride at tax payer expense, without considering how those poor people would otherwise die.
I have friends in the Ukraine and India and they tell me that health care is unbelievably low cost, because the govt. stays out of it.
That's the solution.
Get gov. out of health care, and prices will plunge.
No.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_sy ... omparisons
Oh, and from the same link...
Red = "Worst" score
Green = "Best" score.
I use "..." for both worst and best, though, as it really doesn't seem like a low government % of health care costs is a benefit when one considers the additional indicators of quality and efficiency... now does it?
Oh, and the Ukraine and India are ranked 79th and 112th place internationally by the WHO wrt. quality of health care, BTW... Perhaps not the best benchmark for evaluating the relative attractiveness of health care system, hmm?
Please note that the above data for preventable deaths are from 2007 - prior to the introduction of the ACA. It is thus possible that the US has improved its standing on this indicator (but probably not enough to improve its relative ranking) since then due to the previously mentioned emphasis on avoiding medical error in the ACA.
26 Jul 2016, 2:50 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Now, now, let's not be so thin skinned.
What a substantive reply, and so relevant to the discussion, almost like those people who keep saying "calm down" when confronted with dry, emotionless arguments.
Think of any positions you've ever changed yet?
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 3:01 am
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Now, now, let's not be so thin skinned.
What a substantive reply, and so relevant to the discussion, almost like those people who keep saying "calm down" when confronted with dry, emotionless arguments.
Think of any positions you've ever changed yet?
Yes, I'm much less charitable toward the Obama administration regarding whistleblowers. I'm even thinking Snowden wasn't out to sell secrets to the Russians and Chinese. But have you changed any of your ideas?
But obviously, your arguments are hardly dry and emotionless. So much so that you're willing to let a narcissistic blowhard and failed billionaire bring ruin to the country, just to rub our smug liberal faces in it. I certainly hope it'll be worth the disaster you're jumping for joy for.
By the way, Trump's Mexican border wall, and all his mass deportations will only cause the national budget and deficit to skyrocket several times more than any Democratic plans - and that will in the end take massive taxes. Hope that your supposedly non-racist, tax hating, liberal hating friends can live with that.
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,725
Location: the island of defective toy santas
26 Jul 2016, 3:08 am
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,725
Location: the island of defective toy santas
26 Jul 2016, 3:10 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,790
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
26 Jul 2016, 3:12 am
