Page 1 of 7 [ 107 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

yelekam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 591

30 Jul 2016, 11:18 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I think abortion for disability is ok, it's the parents' choice whether to birth a disabled child.


I myself would disagree. I would contend that selective abortion, whether for disability, race, gender, or any other natural variation in humanity, is a form of discrimination and contrary to the principles of human rights.
It is one thing for someone to decide whether or not to have an abortion based on whether or not they want to have a child. It is another thing to decide to have an abortion for a selective reason. At that point no longer about the liberties of the individuals having abortions. It is about them deciding what type of person deserves to live and acting to deny a potential human being life on the basis of the type of individual that would enter into the world if not prevented.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

31 Jul 2016, 2:17 am

yelekam wrote:
Thus such practices would come with the possibility of creating horrible mistakes.

True.

yelekam wrote:
It is often the people who have difficulty with the current condition of things, who understake the efforts to create new advances.

That's true too. Sometimes I think civilization is not ready for the technology it already has.



btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

31 Jul 2016, 12:12 pm

I don't think anyone should be forced to have any child, a healthy or disabled one, so people are free to abort any fetus that they don't want to birth and raise or even birth then give to others to raise.


_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!


K_Kelly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2014
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,452

12 Aug 2016, 12:38 pm

OP, would you have a problem with mothers letting die or killing their non-disabled kids? There you go.

I think ALL lives, whether disabled or not, are worthy of living.

It really bothers me that the same people who don't want other disabilities to be aborted actually don't want to make abortion illegal.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,877
Location: Stendec

12 Aug 2016, 12:50 pm

rats_and_cats wrote:
Why is the world so eugenics-happy?
Because everybody wants their children to be athletic, healthy, industrious, intelligent, loving, sane, sociable, talented AND wealthy enough to support themselves and the parents until the day they die.

Who wouldn't want to have children that are practically perfect in every way?

***

T minus 53 and counting.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,547
Location: Stalag 13

20 Aug 2016, 2:14 am

The reason that society has that type of mindset is because they don't believe that every life has value, which it does. They're unaware of the working disabled population who work at regular jobs along side their typical peers. They're unaware that the working disabled are actually helping out the economy because they're purchasing items with their own money which in turn makes for a stronger economy.


_________________
Who wants to adopt a Sweet Pea?


CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,547
Location: Stalag 13

20 Aug 2016, 2:16 am

I'd also rather have a special needs child than a child that's practically perfect in every way. I love people and characters with disabilities so much, that I call them Sids after Sid from Flushed Away. :O)


_________________
Who wants to adopt a Sweet Pea?


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,735
Location: the island of defective toy santas

20 Aug 2016, 2:31 am

it seems to me that the ones most enthusiastically into eugenics are the same people who look at me and think i'm one of those useless eaters because i'm not a big wheel.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash

20 Aug 2016, 2:59 am

Abortion is murder, eugenics is guaranteed as long as it is tolerated as abortion is considered an acceptable form of birth control. Pretty soon we'll probably have 'designer babies', humanity is in it's last throes before being superseded by machines. You can guarantee 100% if they ever find an Autism gene that the would be en mass maybe even required abortions, I bet they're looking for it very hard right at this very moment. Most people see the disabled as a burden and unworthy of life, seeing it as even sympathetic to extinguish it. How many people say they would kill themselves if they ever became disabled? How many people would straight up ostracize people who are disabled? It's a terrible affliction, people are terrible too, it all sucks as we live time of moral decay and societal collapse.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

20 Aug 2016, 3:45 am

Jacoby wrote:
Abortion is murder, eugenics is guaranteed as long as it is tolerated as abortion is considered an acceptable form of birth control. Pretty soon we'll probably have 'designer babies', humanity is in it's last throes before being superseded by machines. You can guarantee 100% if they ever find an Autism gene that the would be en mass maybe even required abortions, I bet they're looking for it very hard right at this very moment. Most people see the disabled as a burden and unworthy of life, seeing it as even sympathetic to extinguish it. How many people say they would kill themselves if they ever became disabled? How many people would straight up ostracize people who are disabled? It's a terrible affliction, people are terrible too, it all sucks as we live time of moral decay and societal collapse.

I share the same prediction for humanity's future. I think eugenics will be the norm in a hundred years and soon after biologically enhanced humans and then bio-mechanically.
But is this a bad thing? I think the people who do live in this future would be happier and the economy would be more vibrant.
People with disabilities are a burden to society. I know I am. And to my family as well.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,735
Location: the island of defective toy santas

20 Aug 2016, 3:47 am

people with disabilities exist for a reason. that reason is not apparent to most humans, but to some, for sure.



rats_and_cats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 627
Location: USA

20 Aug 2016, 11:51 am

"People with disabilities are a burden to society."
Tell that to Bill Gates, Temple Grandin, a surprising amount of U.S. Presidents (was looking up FDR because I forgot his name and stumbled on this http://askearn.org/exchange/disability- ... residents/ ), Michael Phelps, Albert Einstein... if none of these people were given a chance at life, a chance to build a career, a chance to speak up, the world would be very different today.



androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

20 Aug 2016, 4:18 pm

rats_and_cats wrote:
"People with disabilities are a burden to society."
Tell that to Bill Gates, Temple Grandin, a surprising amount of U.S. Presidents (was looking up FDR because I forgot his name and stumbled on this http://askearn.org/exchange/disability- ... residents/ ), Michael Phelps, Albert Einstein... if none of these people were given a chance at life, a chance to build a career, a chance to speak up, the world would be very different today.

I could only find speculation as to Phelps, but he doesn't seem autistic to me. Anyway, sure, they have all contributed. But does this offset the cost of those who don't?



K_Kelly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2014
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,452

20 Aug 2016, 7:25 pm

Awful lot of hypocrisy on here. I don't think abortion should be tolerated for the disabled any more or less than other lives.

Why do people get mad when I want to say abortion shouldn't be tolerated in general?



Spiderpig
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,893

21 Aug 2016, 1:02 am

Good luck trying to stop people from getting rid of unwanted children. Even if you manage to stop the unwilling parents from letting them die, imagine what kind of lousy upbringing they’re going to get. If the parents are determined, they can very easily keep them too ignorant and helpless, with learned helplessness, to have a chance to survive at eighteen when they’re kicked out. If they’re smart, they’ll do it without doing anything that can legally be considered abuse or letting anyone else see any evidence that they’re being less than excellent parents. It’ll be the children’s fault alone that they fail to be viable adults.


_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.


rats_and_cats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Posts: 627
Location: USA

21 Aug 2016, 7:02 am

The point is that anyone can be great if given the chance. Sure, most people won't be the next Einstein or anything like that, but everyone can do something meaningful with their lives, even if it's small, like being a janitor and keeping the school clean so kids don't get sick. If it weren't for janitors and garbage collectors we would still be getting the plague.

And I was talking about disability in general, not just autism. I think Michael Phelps has ADHD, and there's another swimmer whose name I forget whose chest caves in and swimming started out as a therapy and he got really good at it.

Most people I know are unwanted/accident/surprise children, including me. Their parents love them and they have meaningful, successful lives in their own way. If everybody's first response when faced with unexpected pregnancy was abortion, the world would miss out on a lot of awesome people, and their parents wouldn't know how awesome they were at parenting.