Is it wrong sometimes to think of Neurotypicals as "stupid"?

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ProfessorJohn
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13 Aug 2016, 9:41 am

BirdInFlight wrote:
I've never thought of neurotypical people as "stupid" but I have been genuinely puzzled by SOME of the things that seem to make large numbers of the general population happy, things that I find to be odd behavior I have never felt drawn to.


If large numbers of the general population are drawn to a behavior, then it is not odd. It would be more odd that you and others are not drawn to it.



saxgeek
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13 Aug 2016, 9:46 am

What exactly does it mean to judge someone? I hear people use that term a lot, and I never know quite what it means.

Yes, I agree that we should label behaviors as stupid instead of people. Someone who smokes cigarettes is definitely doing something stupid and ruining their health, but that person as a whole might not be stupid. They might be some astrophysicist who comes up with brilliant theories.



ProfessorJohn
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13 Aug 2016, 9:52 am

Unfortunately I see lots of unflattering generalizations about NTs on these boards. Things like they are superficial, only care about appearances, etc. I am sure you all have seen them too, and that somehow Aspies are superior because we don't care about those things. Most of the NTs I have met are actually really good people who I wish I could be like.



BirdInFlight
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13 Aug 2016, 10:19 am

ProfessorJohn wrote:
BirdInFlight wrote:
I've never thought of neurotypical people as "stupid" but I have been genuinely puzzled by SOME of the things that seem to make large numbers of the general population happy, things that I find to be odd behavior I have never felt drawn to.


If large numbers of the general population are drawn to a behavior, then it is not odd. It would be more odd that you and others are not drawn to it.


ProfessorJohn -- did you not read my post carefully?

I never said "it is odd."

I said "things I FIND TO BE ODD".

I, me. I find to be odd. That's a total owning that it's my subjective feeling. Saying "I find it to be odd" is completely different from saying "the things they are drawn to are odd."

One is a statement of both individual opinion and a choice of wording that shows I'm aware it's only my individual opinion.

The other is something someone would say if they truly believe it was objectively odd.

I'M FULLY AWARE that if masses of people like something or do something and I don't, I'm the odd one.

I only expressed MYSELF FINDING IT odd to me.

HOLY SH!T I just don't know how to be any clearer on this frakking board.

And by the way, most of the NTs I have met have been good people I wish I were like too.

That doesn't mean to say there aren't some things that people without my f****d up brain do and like and say that I don't FIND TO BE ODD TO ME.

that also doesn't mean I don't KNOW it's not generally odd. I bloody well know all my life I'm the f*****g odd one.

I'm neither an "aspie supremacist" nor ashamed.

I neither think I'm better than NTs nor hate NTs.

But I DO KNOW there ARE differences that make me unable to enjoy some of the things a typical NT enjoys, and some of these are definitely because of my different wiring. And it doesn't make ME better than them, it just means I CAN'T FRAKKING UNDERSTAND THE BEHAVIOR.

And they can't understand some of mine -- so we're even.



Last edited by BirdInFlight on 13 Aug 2016, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Spiderpig
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13 Aug 2016, 10:25 am

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
There's a difference between a difference of opinion (subjective), and a wrongly held belief contrary to hard evidence (ie the Catholic church vs Galileo).


I’m pretty sure a lot of people disagree with that, too. At least in my humble experience, the usual approach is to regard anything they choose to believe as self-evident and work their way from there, considering anything or anyone that opposes it (often science, for example) discredited by their very disagreement. They don’t seem to have concepts of subjective and objective other than “what you say” and “what I say”, respectively.

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
Opinions supported by hard evidence is different than voicing a personal opinion based on a few examples.


Similarly, people will usually consider whatever argument they’re using to be “hard evidence” and yours to be BS, either just by definition or resorting to some creative bunch of fallacies.

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
Differences of personal opinions can be debated without coming to blows in a modern society. That's why PPR continues to exist. :wink:


I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed actual debate anywhere. What I’ve seen boils down most of the time to a matter of status and power. Whenever I engaged in real life, with my predictable autistic blindness to hierarchy, I always ended up regretting it when they finally made it obvious enough that I’d better shut up if I knew what’s good for me, as that was more humiliating and I’d make much less savory concessions than if I had kept my mouth shut in the first place. On the Internet, they just kept escalating personal attacks till they finally called me out on my cowardice for telling them what I wouldn’t dare to face to face.

I was brought up with the idea that words are to be replied to with words alone, so I need to keep reminding myself that most people will never renounce their natural right to respond to words with physical violence, and generally to anything that is within your legal, so-called “rights” with something that isn’t within theirs, and that you’ll be universally condemned as a coward if you try to escape their retaliations. The only law you can ultimately trust is the law of the jungle, and the only way you’ll stop others from harming you if they choose to is by force—which requires being stronger than them.


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ASPartOfMe
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13 Aug 2016, 10:29 am

Neurotypicality is a spectrum condition.


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Joe90
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13 Aug 2016, 12:48 pm

I've never generalized the NT population as stupid. I hate when Aspies do that. It's a bit like people saying all Jehova's witnesses are stupid because of how they think and live their lives. They aren't stupid, they just have different beliefs.


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13 Aug 2016, 1:16 pm

I think it's wrong to see anyone as stupid for not having the same abilities as you and for not knowing the same stuff as you and for not being aware of things in life if they have never had that experience.


I try to not label anyone as stupid but sometimes it's hard when they do something well stupid and it shocks me. Like how can one think jumping from five stories wouldn't hurt them? (No I never heard that happening) If they were a child, that is one thing but an adult? I would wonder if they were mentally challenged or something. Like that one woman who called 911 because McDonalds was out of chicken McNuggets, I wondered if she was mentally ill or something because it reminded me in Benny & Joon when Joon would call Benny for an "emergency" because they were out of peanut butter super chunks. At least she didn't call 911. :lol: Or that time when some woman called 911 because she locked herself in the car and didn't even think to pull on the thing that unlocks the car. Or the time on this forum years back when someone goes insulting a member here calling them stupid and then they get attacked for it so they go to the mod section on wrongplanet.net board and report it showing the thread basically reporting themselves.


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League_Girl
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13 Aug 2016, 1:32 pm

saxgeek wrote:
What exactly does it mean to judge someone? I hear people use that term a lot, and I never know quite what it means.

Yes, I agree that we should label behaviors as stupid instead of people. Someone who smokes cigarettes is definitely doing something stupid and ruining their health, but that person as a whole might not be stupid. They might be some astrophysicist who comes up with brilliant theories.



To me to judge someone means to think negative of them. For example to judge someone for smoking, you look down on them. You think less of them as a person. I don't think it's judging if you think smoking is a disgusting habit and a stupid thing to do but however if you saw them as disgusting people and stupid and hate them and assume they are rude and inconsiderate people and selfish without seeing any actual proof first, that is judging.


But then again everyone judges. Anyone who says they don't judge is lying. I am sure they will judge anyone who hurts children or if they were racist or supported Hitler. Everyone has limits. If I saw a parent smoking around her child, yes I will judge because I think of them as selfish parents who are not concerned about their kid's health and how they will smell. If I see a pregnant smoker, I judge too because I see them as selfish moms who are not concerned about their baby's health and their development. If I saw a smoker standing by themselves puffing on a cigarette, I don't think anything of them as a person. But however if they got near me and whipped out a cigarette and lit it, I judge. They don't care about anyone being exposed to their second hand smoke. If they were in a smoking area, fine. I as a non smoker have no business being there if I don't want second hand smoke near me. It would be fair for them to assume I wouldn't mind it or else I wouldn't be in the smoking area. But if I complain and judge them, I'm an idiot.


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Aniihya
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13 Aug 2016, 3:22 pm

Not just many NTs but many autist seem equally as stupid. The OP first post seemed foolish too. That logic just didnt add up well.



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13 Aug 2016, 4:24 pm

Metemi wrote:
If I can relate an example from real life, I have a weird ability with maps and direction. I can see maps in my head after looking at them a few times, like maps of a city. So I often drive while with NT friends of mine, and they just don't understand that I know EXACTLY where to go. Not even just in terms of exactness, but I can see pictures in my head of maps and general direction. And they do not. lol

And no matter how many times it happens.... They will be yelling at me, screaming at me to go in a certain direction that I CAN SEE in my head is completely incorrect. And then when they realize.... they apologize for it lol. They will literally be so set in their minds that we are going, say, South, when I can plainly see for certain that we are going North. I'm not kidding, it happens all the time. And there is often literally no way to convince them to just shut up and trust me. Because I SEE IT. I have abitilites that they don't have. Just like they have ablities that I don't have, and will never understand. We are different. Not one better or one worse, just..

Different. :D


Perhaps you need to state some ground rules when you drive people, such as no passenger or back-seat driving, tell them you aren't going to drive them if they do that because it distracts you and will put everyone in danger. That would bother anyone NT or autistic...if anything it's probably worse for autistics though, at least I have enough trouble focusing if too much is going on so if someone was yelling at me where to turn I'd be worried of getting in an accident because of their distraction.

Or tape a sign somewhere in there that says No Backseat Driving or No Ride! :lol:


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13 Aug 2016, 4:26 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:
Metemi wrote:
We are different. Not one better or one worse, just..

Different. :D


You're still judging.

But at least now it is more equal, rather than considering others 'stupid'.


But it is still judging.


To be fair everyone is different, so its not exactly an unfair judgement.


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13 Aug 2016, 4:28 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
I envy your sense of direction.

I don't think of others as stupid, because I feel that way about myself sometimes. I'm relatively intelligent but I don't seem to learn new things without muddling through them myself.


I don't have to have a sense of direction where I live, Colorado east of the mountains...thus mountains always to the west. But always feel so lost when I go to other states and such without mountains, as I don't know which way is what.


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muffinhead
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13 Aug 2016, 4:31 pm

I like to think of NT's as a different species. As such, it isn't justified to call the other party "stupid" based on concrete differences which can't be reconciled.


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13 Aug 2016, 4:34 pm

Yes, it is wrong. No one is stupid, we just have different ways of thinking and viewing the world.



Tiankay
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13 Aug 2016, 4:53 pm

Metemi wrote:
Because... really they are. They think of us as stupid, why wouldn't we feel the same about them? :heart:


I like to see some validatable numbers for this. Have you met every neurotypical person around the world yourself and asked him how he feels about you? Probably not. So you cannot actually know anything about "neurotypicals", you just know about specific stupid human individuals. Exactly like not every autistic is the same, so isnt any NT. By judging all NTs stupid you do the same thing you dont like some NT´s for, thus you get like them. Think about it...

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