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foreigner_girl
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20 Aug 2016, 8:58 pm

Hi, everyone! :)
At first, sorry for my bad english (it's not my native), I hope you will understand me...

I'm not a parent, but I'm writting here, because I need of neutral opinions. I need of some explanations about what in fact is autism. I mean "high functional autism". I'm trying to know if I have something to do with it (I suppose that I don't, but I have to be sure)...
So I have some questions, and I will be very thankful if someone competent answer them. I apologize in advance if I sound impolite or not good expressing me, but it is the only way in which I could interpret the descriptions and the sense of this condition and to compare with mine. My questions are following:
Why the autistics are described as less empathic and not-interested in the others, ect., isn't this a character traits, how can it be associated with a condition? Isn't this sounds simply like a description of a... "bad person" (no matter autistic or not)...
What is the relationship between to have acute senses and to be "sensory overloaded"? For example, many animals have much more acute senses than ours, but they don't have "sensory overload"...
And my next question is related to the senses. Why exactly the people are the most "loading" (or irritating) thing for autistics? Why not automobiles? Or television? Or animals (which are live creatures, like the people)?
Why some of autistics are not able (or not like) to look exactly the eyes of the people (excepting the ways when you are shying/worrying)? In what the eyes differ from the hands, the mouth, ect.?
These questions arises in me when I read (or listen) about autism.

I'm sorry if I sound like an ignorant :oops: ...



traven
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21 Aug 2016, 12:48 am

It's culturally defined,
if your amidst 1000 bleating sheep or some thousands chickens you'll see!
It's not a common situation for suburbian living, where we measure each other most,
try
20 barking dogs, or racing cars repairs on sunday, but they're overload for everybody



foreigner_girl
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21 Aug 2016, 4:23 am

You are right... But I mean another... I have read that autistics don't like mainly/mostly (to talk with) people, because this overloads their senses. But even one car or one dog may be more noisy than a speaking man...



yelekam
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21 Aug 2016, 3:07 pm

As to the Empathy Matter: People tend to confuse what is meant by this because the term empathy in medical science refers to something different than what is used for in common language. In medical jargon empathy refers to the processes of mental cognition related to theorizing the mental and emotional states a of others and cognitively addressing them. With autism there tends to be a difficulty in taking sensory information and using it to interpret and theorize the possible mental state of others.
This seems to be for a number of possible reasons: on the sensory side, there the possibility of issues with noticing the sensory data to analyze or of figuring what to analyze. On the mental side there is differences in theory of mind Where NTs relatively tend more to theorize that others think like they do, unless proven otherwise, and imagine themselves in the same situation. And autistics relatively tend more to think of the other person as a distinct individual, and that the particular individuals thoughts and feeling need to be theorized by particular data related to them and a memory of past expressions of the other's thoughts. Thus, greater levels of abstract thinking and greater collection of individual data can be needed in order for the autistic individual do develop a quicker sense for theorizing the emotions of others. Also, due to the NTs relative tendency toward learning more toward blind copying and conformity, society can have less formal teaching on the mental approach to theorizing the mental states of others, which can leave autistics at a disadvantage for learning their own means for theorizing the emotions of others.
The talk of empathy with autistics does not refer to a lack of caring or sympathy. Autistic people, as a subgroup, are no less capable for caring about others. Rather it is an issue of trying to figure out how others feel in order to know how to interact with them.
Furthermore, autistic people can also have different ways of considering others, taking interests in others, and expressing interests in others. This can be misinterpreted as a lack of interest in others, when it is often an issue of different ways of being and interaction.
As to the matter of sensory issues: there are those who theorize that part of autism is a difference in the brains interpretation of senses where senses are not only more intense, but where the aspect that blocks out sensory input is reduced. Under that theory, the difference between autistic heightened senses and animals, would likely be a matter of being able to tune out sensory information.
Why is it that other individuals tend to be more overwhelming? I would propound that it is because it is not just sensory with people. In addition to the sensory input there is the thinking put into interpreting this information to theorize the others thoughts, the thinking that goes into considering social rules and relations, the thinking that goes into formulating what one says, and the thinking that goes into formulating how one says it. Add to that having to think about tone of voice, body language, and several other things we may not have been taught how to do or at the vary least involve greater conscious thought, which NTs have mental short cuts to doing. Its like trying to run a computer with a whole bunch of programs running at the same time.
Why do some autists not like looking people in the eyes? Because it feels creepy and unnatural. Imagine if you had to look into the eyes of some creepy looking person who is staring constantly into your eyes, and giving off this aggressive feeling that was as if they were peering inside you. Now imagine if regular eye contact felt like that. At that point it would be understandable why you would not want to look people in the eyes.



momsparky
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21 Aug 2016, 5:25 pm

Hello and welcome!

For one thing - your very factual, direct approach and phrasing has me wondering if you might exhibit tendencies of autism. Most people, when joining a new group to ask for information, spend time with chitchat and greetings before diving in. (Note: being on the spectrum myself, I don't consider this a problem, it's refreshing. I don't care how many kids or dogs you have if you are trying to get a problem solved.)

I also note that you are preemptively concerned about rudeness, which can be an issue for "high-functioning" (which typically means highly verbal, although generally functioning labels are meaningless) people on the spectrum. Most people navigate social situations with ease, even when they are using a language they aren't familiar with.

So, here is the odd thing about autism: it is defined as a disability. Technically, since I am not disabled by autism (I have compensated for my autistic deficits in communication, for instance, and have figured out how to find clothing that is comfortable) I have "sub-clinical" autism. In other words, technically, I have features of autism but don't have it (the clinician noted that they don't have a way to differentiate if a patient is autistic and compensating or if they aren't autistic at all.) All this is to say that many people have features of autism but are not disabled by them because they have learned to manage.

With empathy - I agree with the earlier poster that it is a bad term. Sadistic people lack empathy in the way you are thinking of it; Autistic people are not typically sadistic (I suppose it is possible, but I've never met anyone.) People on the autism spectrum have difficulty with pragmatic (social) speech and with what's called Theory of Mind (the ability to understand what another person is thinking or feeling.) This can express itself in a difficulty understanding or using tone of voice, context, body language, or that other people may not share the same knowledge.

So, as someone speaking and listening in a foreign language, that can be exhausting, yes? Imagine if ALL communication seemed foreign to you - like you had a phrasebook as your only tool to communicate with anyone. This is largely why people on the spectrum struggle to socialize; it's like everyone is speaking a foreign language all the time and you either only understand a little, or you have to consciously translate everything into something you understand. It can be exhausting, even if you are good enough at it that nobody notices.

As for eye contact, that varies from person to person. I have difficulty with eye contact in a group, because I tend to give eye contact fully to each person I am talking to - by moving my whole head and turning my body towards them. When there's more than two other people, it's exhausting to keep up. Other people find that people's eyes contain too much uninterpretable social information, and therefore find them frightening. Sometimes people on the spectrum are too good at reading social information from eye contact, and pick up information the person doesn't want to share (for instance, do you really want strangers you just met to know if you are depressed? If you are a stranger in that position...what do you do with that information? It might make you jumpy, yes?)

As for sensory issues, it's not necessarily that senses are acute, it's that they are disorganized neurologically. It is often referred to as "sensory overload" or "overstimulation." For me, if I have any clothing touching my neck, it is excruciatingly painful - and my skin will develop sores, even though it has nothing to do with an allergy or injury. My body cannot appropriately interpret the sense of clothing touching my neck. For many it is the same with sound - there's a great video here that has an example: https://vimeo.com/52193530 and more here http://mashable.com/2014/04/23/autism-s ... ccABqJ9uqn

Does this answer some of your questions? There are also many people on the spectrum who have multiple diagnoses (I am primarily diagnosed with anxiety.) If you are looking for answers for yourself, that might be a possibility.



foreigner_girl
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22 Aug 2016, 3:56 pm

Thank you for your long and exhaustive answers.

My first problem is with hearing - my endurance to loud noises is lower compared with other people. As though I hear a bit louder. I would compare it with a pain. For example, if a motorcycle or a noisy car pass by me, I clench teeth, because I feel something like a pain in my ears and head, but a pain of loudness, not literally pain.
I have ever loved the order and the logic. Especially the order. And yes, in significantly degree. I mean the order of things, in the room, ect., but the rules too.
But along with this, I don't think I have a problem with the communication. Yes, I almost don't have a friends, but I think it is due to my character, understandings/views and interests. My "sympathy" (I don't know which is the most appropriate word) is MORE than average and I love to help those who need of this. I have very acute sense of justice too. I don't think I have noticable problem with recognising the emotions of the others, although nobody can recognise this every time.
I don't like looking eyes to eyes, but this is because I am shy.



momsparky
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23 Aug 2016, 7:49 am

May I ask - what is your goal in asking this question? It seems, from the way that you are writing, like you don't want to think of yourself as autistic.

It is impossible for anyone, especially lay people, to diagnose a stranger over the internet. We really can't answer that question for you - if you want to answer it, you need to seek out a professional who specializes in adult autism.

I would say that you are thinking of communication in a very literal way (which is a hallmark of autism.) People with autism have difficulty with nuanced social communication. For this reason, they are often blunt or miss indicators that the person they are speaking to is uncomfortable...and therefore often don't have a lot of friends, because people don't understand that they don't intend to be hurtful.

An acute sense of justice and sympathy is very common in the autism spectrum (just take a look at this entire board of people trying to help each other!) Theory of Mind (which varies from person to person) is more about being able to guess what kind of information another person may or may not have. (Here is a test they give children for an example: http://www.educateautism.com/infographi ... -test.html )

Also, many people with autism might say they avoid eye contact because they are shy, or say they are shy in general - social anxiety due to specific deficits and shyness are very difficult to tease out.

Again, this is just a feeling from a person who is on the spectrum herself a bit, and who has been around a lot of different autistic people for the last 10 years. I will say that getting a diagnosis for myself was incredibly enlightening, and answered many questions I had about myself. Although I was diagnosed as "sub-clinical" (meaning not disabled) and therefore did not need supports, it was helpful to be aware that I spend much more energy than neurotypical people doing the same things.

If you are concerned, see a professional. It can be life-changing in a positive way.



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23 Aug 2016, 9:31 am

Good advice as always, momsparky.

I remember when I was asking those questions, being very torn.

I did not want it to be true that my son, or my self, or my family members would rightly carry this label--because it felt like being "othered." Or acknowledging that the differences between us and the "normal" people were deep and real.

But also how amazing it was to have something that put in perspective all these differences throughout my life: a framework for understanding, a way of not feeling like a colossal failure for not behaving or reacting like most people.

Foreigner_girl, I hope you find the answers that you are looking for and that they help you. Momsparky is right, such self-discovery with professional help can be life-changing.


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