The condescending attitude towards blacks in America

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wilburforce
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22 Aug 2016, 5:11 pm

If you want to avoid condescending to black people, then you might start by calling them black people instead of just "blacks". Racist people tend to use "blacks" instead of black people, and you wouldn't want to lump yourself in with racists by using the same language as them, would you? :wink:


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22 Aug 2016, 7:45 pm

L_Holmes wrote:
A more extreme example of this attitude is seen with some people's reaction to the Milwaukee riots. To summarize what happened, an armed black man was shot by a black police officer, and somehow this was twisted to be the murder of yet another "innocent" black man by a supposedly racist cop. Over 200 black people responded to this by gathering, initially to protest, but quickly turned to looting, rioting, burning businesses and police vehicles, and assaulting police officers, as well as any white citizen who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. All because a black police officer shot a dangerous criminal.

I don't know if you are aware of this.


Wisconsin is an open carry state.



L_Holmes
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23 Aug 2016, 4:40 am

wilburforce wrote:
If you want to avoid condescending to black people, then you might start by calling them black people instead of just "blacks". Racist people tend to use "blacks" instead of black people, and you wouldn't want to lump yourself in with racists by using the same language as them, would you? :wink:

I call them both, and I do the same for whites. They mean the same thing. If you think I'm racist, just come right out and say it. Doesn't it seem a little odd, though, that a racist would be concerned about people being condescending towards blacks in the first place?


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L_Holmes
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23 Aug 2016, 4:45 am

RushKing wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
A more extreme example of this attitude is seen with some people's reaction to the Milwaukee riots. To summarize what happened, an armed black man was shot by a black police officer, and somehow this was twisted to be the murder of yet another "innocent" black man by a supposedly racist cop. Over 200 black people responded to this by gathering, initially to protest, but quickly turned to looting, rioting, burning businesses and police vehicles, and assaulting police officers, as well as any white citizen who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. All because a black police officer shot a dangerous criminal.

I don't know if you are aware of this.


Wisconsin is an open carry state.

Not sure what your point is. He was about to shoot the officer with the gun, which by the way was a stolen weapon.


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L_Holmes
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23 Aug 2016, 4:48 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Evils and whose to blame
1. Wealth gap -- Racist whites
2. Education gap -- Racist whites
3. Home ownership gap -- Racist whites
4. Employment gap -- Racist whites
5. Poverty gap - Racist whites
6. Gentrification -- Racist whites
7. Poor drinking water in Flint --Racist whites
8. Over-representation of minorities incarcerated -- Systemic White Racism
9. Harsh laws -- Systemic White Racism

Just search google. :lol:

Vaccines cause autism. Just search Google.


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23 Aug 2016, 6:42 am

Oh, and the Earth is flat—just search Google. And all autistics like us are self-important, entitled and stupid brats who think we're smarter than everyone else—just read what Encyclopedia Dramatica has to say about us.


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AspE
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23 Aug 2016, 8:46 am

L_Holmes wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
If you want to avoid condescending to black people, then you might start by calling them black people instead of just "blacks". Racist people tend to use "blacks" instead of black people, and you wouldn't want to lump yourself in with racists by using the same language as them, would you? :wink:

I call them both, and I do the same for whites. They mean the same thing. If you think I'm racist, just come right out and say it. Doesn't it seem a little odd, though, that a racist would be concerned about people being condescending towards blacks in the first place?

No, it's just racist alligator tears.



ASPartOfMe
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23 Aug 2016, 12:58 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
Oh, and the Earth is flat—just search Google. And all autistics like us are self-important, entitled and stupid brats who think we're smarter than everyone else—just read what Encyclopedia Dramatica has to say about us.

I do not have to leave WP to find that out :(


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wilburforce
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23 Aug 2016, 2:57 pm

L_Holmes wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
If you want to avoid condescending to black people, then you might start by calling them black people instead of just "blacks". Racist people tend to use "blacks" instead of black people, and you wouldn't want to lump yourself in with racists by using the same language as them, would you? :wink:

I call them both, and I do the same for whites. They mean the same thing. If you think I'm racist, just come right out and say it. Doesn't it seem a little odd, though, that a racist would be concerned about people being condescending towards blacks in the first place?


Have you ever asked any black people how they feel about being called "blacks" as opposed to "black people"? Because I've heard many black people say that they really don't like it and consider anyone who calls them that suspect because of the dehumanisation of the language ("a black" what? cat? night? mark?--using the word as a noun is dehumanising in the same way using "females" as a noun to describe human women is dehumanising). If you want to avoid being condescending, shouldn't you go by what people want to be called?

The only people I hear using the term "blacks" as a noun to describe black people are Fox News correspondents and their like--not known for NOT being racist, those guys.


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23 Aug 2016, 4:59 pm

Why does no one ever ask why we are condescending to corporations while we give them tax breaks and tax loopholes and every advantage in the system? Meanwhile corporations steal more money from citizens than all other forms of theft combined.

...in 2012 federal and state agencies recovered $933 million for victims of wage theft. By comparison, all the property taken in all the robberies of all types in 2012, solved or unsolved, amounted to a little under $341 million.

Research suggests American workers are getting screwed out of $20 billion to $50 billion annually.


source:
http://theweek.com/articles/642568/bigg ... what-think



L_Holmes
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23 Aug 2016, 10:29 pm

wilburforce wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
If you want to avoid condescending to black people, then you might start by calling them black people instead of just "blacks". Racist people tend to use "blacks" instead of black people, and you wouldn't want to lump yourself in with racists by using the same language as them, would you? :wink:

I call them both, and I do the same for whites. They mean the same thing. If you think I'm racist, just come right out and say it. Doesn't it seem a little odd, though, that a racist would be concerned about people being condescending towards blacks in the first place?


Have you ever asked any black people how they feel about being called "blacks" as opposed to "black people"? Because I've heard many black people say that they really don't like it and consider anyone who calls them that suspect because of the dehumanisation of the language ("a black" what? cat? night? mark?--using the word as a noun is dehumanising in the same way using "females" as a noun to describe human women is dehumanising). If you want to avoid being condescending, shouldn't you go by what people want to be called?

The only people I hear using the term "blacks" as a noun to describe black people are Fox News correspondents and their like--not known for NOT being racist, those guys.

But you are the one being condescending, acting as though, because a few black people don't like the term "blacks", they must all dislike it, so we shouldn't say it around them because it might hurt their feelings. I prefer to think that most black people are not so sensitive about something as silly as that, but you are the one saying that they are.

Why can we say "whites", but not "blacks"? What you are saying is, we should have a double standard based on the skin color of who we're talking about, because, "If we don't call them black people, they might assume we think they're not people and get upset." If a black person gets upset about that, they are being childish, and I couldn't care less if they find my use of the word "blacks" offensive.


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wilburforce
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24 Aug 2016, 12:05 am

L_Holmes wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
If you want to avoid condescending to black people, then you might start by calling them black people instead of just "blacks". Racist people tend to use "blacks" instead of black people, and you wouldn't want to lump yourself in with racists by using the same language as them, would you? :wink:

I call them both, and I do the same for whites. They mean the same thing. If you think I'm racist, just come right out and say it. Doesn't it seem a little odd, though, that a racist would be concerned about people being condescending towards blacks in the first place?


Have you ever asked any black people how they feel about being called "blacks" as opposed to "black people"? Because I've heard many black people say that they really don't like it and consider anyone who calls them that suspect because of the dehumanisation of the language ("a black" what? cat? night? mark?--using the word as a noun is dehumanising in the same way using "females" as a noun to describe human women is dehumanising). If you want to avoid being condescending, shouldn't you go by what people want to be called?

The only people I hear using the term "blacks" as a noun to describe black people are Fox News correspondents and their like--not known for NOT being racist, those guys.

But you are the one being condescending, acting as though, because a few black people don't like the term "blacks", they must all dislike it, so we shouldn't say it around them because it might hurt their feelings. I prefer to think that most black people are not so sensitive about something as silly as that, but you are the one saying that they are.

Why can we say "whites", but not "blacks"? What you are saying is, we should have a double standard based on the skin color of who we're talking about, because, "If we don't call them black people, they might assume we think they're not people and get upset." If a black person gets upset about that, they are being childish, and I couldn't care less if they find my use of the word "blacks" offensive.

I don't know why I bother trying to reason with you; you've obviously already made up your mind about "blacks" and you're very sure you hold no racial biases in your mind, conscious or subconscious.

Have a good evening. I won't be bothering in future to try to talk to you on this issue.


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heavenlyabyss
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24 Aug 2016, 2:44 am

Most people are racist. I am racist. The OP is probably racist. The important thing I suppose is that we talk about it.

I know someone who fought in the Iraq War who is deathly afraid of people in turbans. He has PTSD from fighting in a messed up war. Is he a racist? Sort of. But from a different angle, you could just say that his fear response in his brain is highly activated to people of Muslim faith because that is who he associates with violence from his experiences. Some Muslim people might hate white people for similar reasons. The important thing is to look at why.

People have different values, based on their religions, based on their parents, based on their environment, based on their poverty level based on traumas they have experienced. The one factor that doesn't actually matter is race itself.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in people as individuals. People are largely products of their environment in my opinion. Special people rise above their environment but they are the exception not the norm.



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24 Aug 2016, 2:55 am

By the way, it is racist to assume that black people need coddling.

I don't think black people need coddling. I just look at the situation of black people in the US and realize that they are overall at a disadvantage over white people, all other factors being considered equal.



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24 Aug 2016, 3:26 am

wilburforce wrote:
I don't know why I bother trying to reason with you; you've obviously already made up your mind about "blacks" and you're very sure you hold no racial biases in your mind, conscious or subconscious.


Claiming that you have superior knowledge of another person's mind than that person himself is not reasoning. Reasoning would imply that you've considered the possibility that your position is not default correct for even a fraction of a second. If you were actually interested in what black people thought rather than wearing a cheap knock-off of their experiences like a stolen coat in order to justify your outrage, you would be aware that many dislike catch-all terms like "African-American" or "People of Colo(u)r", prefer to simply refer to themselves as "black".

In other words, you serve as a prime example of the subject of this thread.

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Most people are racist. I am racist. The OP is probably racist. The important thing I suppose is that we talk about it.


Simply supporting your nation at the Olympics technically qualifies as "racist". As with most things, there are varying degrees of racism that range from "harmless" to "overtly hostile".

Quote:
I know someone who fought in the Iraq War who is deathly afraid of people in turbans. He has PTSD from fighting in a messed up war. Is he a racist? Sort of. But from a different angle, you could just say that his fear response in his brain is highly activated to people of Muslim faith because that is who he associates with violence from his experiences. Some Muslim people might hate white people for similar reasons. The important thing is to look at why.


Whilst you couldn't exactly characterise prejudice as a result of mental illness as "harmless", it certainly qualifies as "justifiable".

Quote:
People have different values, based on their religions, based on their parents, based on their environment, based on their poverty level based on traumas they have experienced. The one factor that doesn't actually matter is race itself.


It matters when people choose to make it matter - which isn't to say I disagree with you. In my experience "hostile culturalism" is far more widespread than hostile racism.

Quote:
I don't have a whole lot of faith in people as individuals. People are largely products of their environment in my opinion. Special people rise above their environment but they are the exception not the norm.


Whereas I prefer to deal with people as individuals and dislike arbitrary collectivism which sows division and helps maintain the kind of environment which leads to negative outcomes.



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24 Aug 2016, 3:37 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Most people are racist. I am racist. The OP is probably racist. The important thing I suppose is that we talk about it.

I know someone who fought in the Iraq War who is deathly afraid of people in turbans. He has PTSD from fighting in a messed up war. Is he a racist? Sort of. But from a different angle, you could just say that his fear response in his brain is highly activated to people of Muslim faith because that is who he associates with violence from his experiences. Some Muslim people might hate white people for similar reasons. The important thing is to look at why.

People have different values, based on their religions, based on their parents, based on their environment, based on their poverty level based on traumas they have experienced. The one factor that doesn't actually matter is race itself.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in people as individuals. People are largely products of their environment in my opinion. Special people rise above their environment but they are the exception not the norm.

There is a difference between bias and racism. People tend to be biased against the out-group, whatever that is for them, and it does of course extend to people of another race. But there is a difference between that, and outright accepting those biases consciously, and believing they are based on the actual inferiority of a race. Actual racism has intent.

It's not to say that all bias is ok, of course, but by calling it racism, people are bound to assume that it's based on hatred, rather than a subconscious bias based on a lack of understanding. Calling people hateful who are not actually hateful is a very poor way of convincing them of anything, let alone on a topic as sensitive as racial bias.


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