Trump is a massive sociopathic narcissist

Post Reply New Topic

That's because that frog is a symbol of truly deplorable people who love Trump.

*sigh* I miss the good old days when Pepe was a delightful fellow who peed with his pants down.

Anyways, Trump has many deplorable Nazi supporters who ignore his Zionists tendencies.
In the same way, Clinton has many supporters who ignore her neocon tenancies. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.



"Of course there are differences, but they are not fundamental. Nobody should have any illusions. The United States has essentially a one-party system and the ruling party is the business party."
- Noam Chomsky

This all reminds me of a poem I remember hearing once. I wish I could remember who wrote it.

Everybody knows our days are numbered. Everybody knows with their fingers crossed.
Everybody knows the war is over. Everybody knows the good guys lost.
Everybody knows the fight was fixed. The poor stay poor. The rich get rich.
That's how it goes.
Everybody knows.

The song is Everybody Knows by Leonard Cohen. Here's my fave cover by Whispering Tree. Whispering Tree also did a song called Go Call the Captain which is really relevant here
-------------------------------

Ive been thinking over the Trump issue and came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter. I mean its like this: people condemn narcissism/sociopathy/low empathy/selfishness in social equals on the same level. But they still reward these characteristics every time when looking for strong people to support them against their enemies. I don't think Trump voters really have any illusions about Trump besides thin rationalisations which are more about deflecting criticism than stuff they actually believe themselves.

The real illusions are about themselves. Their voting for Trump because they want to see immigrants and black people and women put in their place. Its not that any of these policies would actually help them materially--- it's about pride. The truth is that a lot of poor white males don't have any abilities or talents to make them special or valuable but they still expect to have it --- and the only value/status/feeling powerful in life they ever got for being white guys. They just can't face the reality that's who they are.

Let immigrants compete and stop putting down black people and low ability white guys with ego expectations which won't happen are the absolute lowest and have to face it. Let women have a really choice who they want as partners and none of them will settle being chained down to losers all their life. So Trump comes along as a bully putting all these people down and they cheer. Because they really are a lot like Trump inside. It's just Trump kicks people around to stay king of the Trump Tower and they kick people around to be king of the trailer park which they want to pretend is Trump Tower.

They like Trump because they think he's their sociopathic narcissist. And theyll never admit hell just screw them over cause (1) they have no hope for themselves they just want other people put below them and (2) they can't admit that once again theyre just a tool. That's why I think we exaggerate the harm done by powerful people because the ones like Trump that really make life suck for all of us only get power by giving bitter people what they want.

HEY! Some of us losers need to be chained to our women!
But seriously, I agree.

Another Leonard Cohen fan.

Chomsky's critique is accurate, but I don't think most Americans, even Bernie and Trump fans, would be upset by that. Most Americans are in favor of private enterprise, property rights, etc.

Almost no one wants a revolution with redistribution of property, forced reeducation, one party rule, etc. --or a return to Jeffersonian Democracy in an Amish like small agricultural communities.

We should stop pretending that being pro-business means being anti-environment, or anti-human rights, etc.

There is actually a very large difference between Hillary and Trump, even though both are pro-business.

Coming from a different angle, I'm thinking the harm done by powerful people (and narcissists), is underestimated, because it keeps bitter people where they are (bitter), and perpetuates the cycle.

This quoted post is very provocative / perceptive----and, I'm afraid, TRUE.

(BTW, I LOVE your new avatar----that movie is one of my all-time FAVORITES; and, IMO, one of Angelina Jolie's BEST roles, ever, and very deserving of her Oscar. You shoulda put Lisa's line, in your signature----the line where she quoted Dorothy Parker's poem about "you might as well live".)

This is the problem with bitter people in the UK too... if they, especially poorer ones, think they voted to leave the EU to get some better standard they must have been either delusional or simply run out of facts, as while subsidies are withdrawn, the government increasingly unlikely to replace them (for farmers e.g.) and while housing demand may decrease due to this outcome (along with businesses departing) as there is still a housing shortage it's unlikely prices will actually come down... and, if anyone voted in the name of democracy, we finally have a wholly unelected cabinet, like a cherry on top of a cake of falsehoods.

Oh, sweetie. I assure you I've no objection to chains either way.


That's very well put thank you. Yeah that is a better and more complete perspective it is absolutely a two way street.

Thanx on the avatar I loved that movie although it has been some time since Ive watched it.

You have any idea what to do with bitter people? Part of me thinks that the poor in spirit are just threats and the problem is empathic morality which excuses/appeases/romanticises/glorifies pain people. The other part of me says the smart thing would be like a minimum gauranteed income to lift people out of bitterness. Like we should kill them with kindness and they should be given every possible assistance.

Oh, I totally agree with "empathic morality" (EXCELLENT term, BTW----VERY descriptive)----BUT, I canNOT agree with "guaranteed income", "killing them with kindness", or giving them "every possible assistance". Poor people are getting alot of that, NOW----and, what does it do? Keeps them, where they are (POOR)----because the more they get, the more they ASK-for; cuz, they're like "Hey, since I asked-for and got THAT, lemme see what ELSE I can ask-for, and get"! It's like, IMO, when parents spoil their kids / give 'em anything / everything they want----then, what happens? The kids turn into spoiled-rotten brats, who think they are entitled, and want everybody to just give them, EVERYTHING, without them working for it / EARNING it (one of the ways narcissists are "made", IMO).

Speaking from my own personal experience, I feel the only person that can help a bitter person, is that bitter person, THEMSELVES----they have to choose NOT to be bitter, anymore, and DO something about it! Now, obviously, that's easier said than done, but everybody has their threshold for how long they're willing to wallow in "it"----and, when they reach that threshold, they'll drag themselves out of it (their bitterness). I mean, look at Stephen Hawking, or any kid here in Baltimore that has to go to school and work two jobs to keep his siblings alive, clothed, and sheltered, because their father's in prison for drug dealing, and their mother's prostituting herself to support her heroin habit----if ANYBODY has a reason to be bitter, it's THESE people; but, ironically, they're NOT (I'm sure they have their moments, but); they just keep-on, goin'-on.

I think Trump's almost certainly a Narc; I'm not sure if he's a Socio. He acts like one but he could simply be a terrible person and a jerk. Sociopath's can't feel remorse... and sure maybe he doesn't feel remorse but that doesn't mean he's incapable: He could simply never feel remorse simply because he's so narcissistic and full of himself that he never thinks he's ever done anything wrong... not because he is incapable.

Perhaps if he, for example, accidentally knocked his daughter into a pit of lava he might feel remorse... for example. But while he's living his life and not accidentally knocking his daughter into lava pits he's simply a narcissistic jerk who never thinks he has done anything wrong because he thinks he is so awesome... at best.

Perhaps he's a Socio, perhaps. Almost certainly a Narc though yes, IMO.

Someone's narcissistic if they use their supposed foundation to fund large portraits of themselves.

And Campin_Cat, I wouldn't take that stance as redistribution seems to work to at least close the gap between the extremes. The states have a lot of inequality, and people may simply be responding to this, although how an unadulterated capitalist who brags of defrauding people could help inequality I've no clue about.

Poor people who lived before the time of assistance not only stayed poor, but they died a lot sooner than they otherwise would have.

Yeah I'm more certain about Trump's massive narcissism than his sociopathy/psychopathy. The reason I'd add the latter is that straight narcissists without antisocial traits typically

(1) accept normal morality & identify as good guys just think they are better at it than others
(2) feel empathic emotions, just direct compassion/love/pity exclusively towards themselves
(3) are in denial about harming and exploiting others
(4) feel shame not just anger and ego threat when narcissitically wounded
(5) show a relatively normal profile of affective facial expressions

So that's why I also think Trump has antisocial spectrum issues --- I could be wrong. When I watched videos of Trump at his rallies he looked like he was performing/masking just as much as Nigel Farage and Ted Cruz who I peg as psychopathic, and he has really spectacular rapport with crowds which I took as evidence of good cognitive empathy (narcs are so self-absorbed they're often not paying enough attention to others to read them)

But in the first debate facing the possibility of dialogue with a social equal I suddenly noticed he looked afraid, and in the second debate he was mumbling and pacing everywhere like covering a busload of anxiety. So 'm not thinking psychopathic right now. Sociopathy might be better as he had just the right kind of hostile environment in a brutal boarding school to encourage sociopathic development, and he does kinda have the no impulse control/openly antisocial attitude you expect of a socio/secondary psychopath (you usually don't expect those traits in highly successful people but Trump of course was born rich enough to be above normal social rules). And while he's masking it's more the narcissistic style "big bad impressive me" mask --- its ultimately defensive and inflexible and it falls apart without validation like in the last debate. His antisocial stuff by contrast is not masked very well. ("I could kill people in broad daylight" "not paying taxes makes me smart" SCREAM SCREAM FLAME SHOUT SCREAM).

It's complicated by the fact that at the outer extremes of narcissism, as I suspect with the outer extremes of all low affective empathy conditions (alexithymia, maybe schizoid?) you do see a convergence with a sociopathic or psychopathic personality traits. That may be what "malignant narcissism" is, or maybe malignant narcissism is just another word for comorbid NPD and ASPD. IDK

Edit: I'm wavering on (5) above. When I think of extreme narcissism one person who comes strongly to mind is the academic writer Camille Paglia. Well it struck me and I googled imaged her and her facial expressions do look uncannily like Trump's. Take a look. The same cold but unfocused eyes, flat tight-lipped smile, smugness. And the older the pictures the more this personality is visibly frozen into the face. It's creepy.

Last edited by OdysseusNemo on 11 Oct 2016, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah all the literature Ive read agrees on that. One way to get a narcissist is when parents give lots of praise/rewards to a child without real respect, concern, love.

I might mostly pretty much agree that bitter people can only be helped by themselves --- but what I want to know is how to deal with them now, since that won't happen fast or in most cases probs ever. I mean there are lots of them and they vote. They make life suck by voting people like Trump into power and then those wankers write the rules for everybody. I am so tired of "good people" being too nice and too weak to admit to themselves that huge percentage of people really don't want anyone to enjoy themselves -- they just want to see the world suck. I want to know how we practically stop them from voting? Well one way to stop bitter people from voting is to make them no longer bitter. If you think that can't be made to work what would you suggest?

Oh gosh, I really hate DT.

I mean, they're a really awful band... they're so overrated and operatic. Dream Theater have got nothing on Riverside.

Oh, I also hate Donald Trump too.

Your username in this thread threw up a sock puppet match so the text of this was deleted, as it appears that you have two accounts. Then I recalled that you asked another moderator about having a second account. So I will ban the first username for you, and place a note on that account so that you aren't mistaken as a sock puppet again.

-B19