Women, are you attracted to muscular guys?

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Fair enough, I can see your point from that perspective. I thought the women were referring to natural training as in Calisthenics and bodyweight training, not a physical job or traditional sports. I was referring to the maintenance and dedication that it takes to become an IFBB professional or powerlifter, it takes an extreme training regime and diet to achieve the results of a professional bodybuilder.

There are parks that have calisthenics equipment in them to use free of charge and many exercises can be performed that stimulate the muscle in a similar way to the gym. In any case, what good is the gym if it does not build functional strength? After a few months of Calisthenics, I was able muscle-ups and calisthenics can supplement parkour and rock climbing.

There are many calisthenics, parkour and climbing athletes that are defined and muscular without the use of steroids or spending many hours in the gym.

Yes, and I'm sorry if I over-reacted a little.

Otherwise I strongly agree with much of what you say.

Personally I myself am interested in bodyweight exercises, functional movements like parkour, kip swings, etc.

I'm thinking of one day saving up and buying a backyard obstacle course, American Ninja Warrior style.

I hope to be much fitter and stronger by age 20 than I am now, and throughout my 20s can spend my liesure time at least one day a week practising on it.

I'd ensure it's top quality to the point it could last several years to decades without suffering much damage or wear and tear.



Yeah, that's a lot of hardwork.

But for non-competors, using a bodybuilding regime as a method to gain muscle and evoke hypertrophy is probably one of the most efficient methods and has the lowest risk of injury.

Certain bodyweight exercises can risk injury, alone with movements like parkour (high injury risk), and sport definitely has high injury risk.

Some of these are also less efficient to gain muscle.



It does, it's just not as effective as functional forms of exercise, bodyweight exercise, etc. or a hard labor job.

So I definitely agree with the benefits there.

That doesn't mean calisthenics is more efficient at gaining muscle. At gaining functional strength? Yes. At gaining increased muscle mass and size? Not so much.

I like the idea of using bodybuilding because it gains visual muscle and increase in size quicker, and the increases in functional strength is does give, will in the long run assist in making the physical activity I enjoy easier in the future.

Think of it as, instead of just me jumping in and doing parkour and obstacle courses like I want to, I could gain muscle from BBuilding first to make these activities easier, rather than doing them with the average body I have now.

Plus, the stronger I look, the more intimidating and thus can ward off potential threats easier by size alone, but also the more attractive to the women who DO want a muscular looking guy.



And I wonder how much stronger they would have been, or how much less time it would have took, if they DID spend at least 25% of their training regime lifting weights in the gym.

Trust me, for the last 3 months or so I've been going to the beach every weekend with family.

It's only 1 day a week, but this along with 3 days in the gym should have brought me some progress by now.

Turns out I wasn't pushing myself hard enough in the gym.

However, that one day each week at the beach, I'd do calisthenics.

I'd do bodyweight exercises like hanging leg raises, pushups, step ups, lunges, jog, run, jump, climb through trees, over rocks, through nature, etc. I'd use monkeybars, do the thing where you swing from one bar to another and grab the other one with both hands.

There was one trick I'd do where I'd jump at this one tree branch and grab it with two hands, then quickly grab the next one with one hand and quickly put my other hand on it before I fell off - monkey style.

This along with a high calorie diet.

My Biceps, Shoulders, Back, Traps, Chest, Ab and Leg muscles would all be taxed the next day.

I have no idea if it's helped with gains in functional strength at all. For both our sake I hope it has.

I am no bigger in size whatsoever, but size ≠ strength. It's possible to gain strength without gaining size.

How much money do they have? What kind of jobs? Comedians mentioned earlier, really anyone already famous likely won't have near as much trouble as the average joe especially when women will still only trade up compared to what they have.

I really doubt anyone who claims not to be so shallow will find this at all attractive unless there was any indication of wealth or high status.




As others have said ultimately I do agree it is unhealthy and not ideal, and there shouldn't be outright acceptance when it threatens health. Even so it is pretty hurtful to see all of these women, same weight as me, lacking in any of their own money or responsibilities, easily finding long lasting partners or able to make demands as such with no question, whereas I'm repeatedly told in extremely transparent wording or tones that I'm just seen as a friend or that I'm too nice. No one is honest.

What's worse is that that's after I gained 50 pounds back. Before that I still didn't look great. It sucks knowing that's probably only half of what I'd really need to do to become attractive. People lying to me and telling me not to worry about it isn't going to be helpful or productive to anyone.

But if they can't make you unhappy about your body, they can't sell you their junk. No more whey powder and weights and exercise videos and clothes that make you look skinnier/more fit. People would probably just go for walks in the clothes they usually wear, and where's the money in that?

Not much I know some in real estate, some that are like cashiers

You have a similar body to my brother and his gf is crazy crazy hot

The last thing we need is any kind of "fat acceptance". I wish my parents hadn't chosen exercise and fitness as one of the many things about modern society they considered vices to rebel against, making it extremely hard for me to get used to doing them seriously, as opposed to feeling guilty for wanting to do them.

You could definitely build your own calisthenics park if you have the space in your backyard for it but that is dependent on your accommodation. You could consider a pull-up mate, it is a portable self-assembly pull up rig.



The pull up mate can be fully disassembled and carried to new locations, it is the ideal portable pull up rig.

I understand that weightlifting can be good for building muscle in a short time but it still requires a huge amount of maintenance to keep that muscle, especially if you have a natural ectomorph frame. It is better to set yourself a realistic goal of what you want to achieve with long-term fitness goals instead of focusing on taking a shortcut to gain muscle. Calisthenics training isn't the best type of training for bodybuilding but the muscle that you can gain from calisthenics is natural and functional.

You can combine the two styles of training, you could do a set of bodyweight repetitions followed a set of slow weightlifting repetitions but you will have to be careful that you do not cause burnout.



What are your goals for training?

To gain muscle from gym time so that my body will be stronger and easier to use in a variety of sports and physical activity.

I enjoy physical activity of a variety of forms so the more efficient my body is, the better.

Along with healthier diet and lifestyle, of course.

Sports I enjoy are running, swimming, cycling, climbing (aka the 'natural' kind, climbing trees barehanded and such), parkour, moving through nature (run, climb, swing from branches, etc.).

As I said, once my body is stronger from muscle gain and losing weight in body fat, my physique will be more aesthetically pleasing yet also fitter. Once I reach my goal I would focus only on maintaining, not gaining, muscle.

Once this happens, I want to train and condition my body to be as skilled as possible in all areas I am interested in. Obviously this would increase functional strength, muscle memory, stamina, endurance, conditioning, hand-eye, co-ordination, etc.

Maybe then I could combine bodybuilding and calisthenics or crossfit or such but ensure my plan avoids burnout.

There's a training regime called the W4SB or Westside 4 Skinny Bastards.

It serves this exact purpose.

Gain muscle from weightlifting for athletes in the off-season, and then the rest of the time is sports/physical conditioning related.

So I sort of want to gain 'gym muscle' first, hypertrophy and such, and then start W4SB.

I don't want to rely on bodyweight regimes and such alone. It seems too inefficient for me. Time is money. I want to at least be maybe Taylor Lautner's size by age 25.

My 'prime' regarding fitness, age 20-30, is only a small window of opportunity.

I can still do all the sports I want to past this age, but I'll never be able to reach my best at that point, which is definitely what I'd like to see what I'm capable of.

At least with a muscular build, there's a few benefits:

1. Considered more appealing to the opposite sex.
2. More size = more intimidating. Less potential for trouble.

With all the physical activity you mentioned, it would be optimal if you would leave your phobias behind, Outrider. Use that as the incentive.

There are many more guys like the previous "chubby" poster than there are muscular guys like the ones you posted. It's true: many of these guys have fine-looking girlfriends.

Just do your stuff because you want to do your stuff--not to get girls.

I was no more successful being a gym rat for a year and running marathons, than I was when I was a fat slob LOL

In other words you were the Queens Casanova either way

I thought I should be nice and vote for something, but the truth is....I don't have a type. Not physically, certainly.

I don't know what it is then...told I'm too clingy, so I initiate less and then get forgotten about. I'm never outright mean or pissy to other people in my day to day life, always trying to give off a confident and laid back and easy going appearance. And yet no one ever gives me any kind of helpful advice, just the same old bs. 'You're not my type', 'you just haven't found the right girl', etc. etc. No one can admit appearance and money and status plays a much larger part than personality or temperament.

Social life is probably the most important factor too.

It wouldn't ruin the industry entirely, but it would weed out the people who go to the gym purely to increase attractiveness vs. those who do it for health and fitness.

Those who do still care about health and fitness would still do all that. I would still do all that. I'd still contribute to the industry.

There's a lot of people who lift weights purely to be better looking.

Without the industry constantly pushing such harsh beauty standards on both men and women, the only people that would try to look more exceptional and super amazing physically from head to toe are those that want to get an edge over everyone else and have the diligence to do so (though then again everyone wanting an advantage could just result in most people still putting excessive effort into looks and superficial appearance, but that's another story).

None of the above. Degree of muscularity isn't even a factor.

What about overall health and fitness?

It's very surprising to hear from some women here they actually don't care about body type at all.

I'd rather have a nice body, average face and average personality, than an out of shape body but better than average personality. But apparently the out of shape guy always wins.

Are all of these men are completely equal in attractiveness if they all had a good personality, took care of their appearance, equal height, dressed what you as a woman consider nice, was hardworking, friendly, what you personally consider funny, you like being around him, and had a pleasant looking face?



Sometimes, I honestly wish more girls and women were more shallow and cared about looks the way us men seem to. Physical appearance can be changed and improved, including face to an extent. Personality can be, but is more innate and even been found to be partly genetic.

People can't express their personality, it's looks that people see first. You only really discover someone's personality and character once you get to know them, which takes anywhere from 6 months to several years.

I hear some girls and women say they might not be physically attracted to a guy at first and maybe even find his body unattractive, but will find his body attractive once she develops emotional feelings for him.

I honestly would be saddened if she wasn't attracted to me physically or even found me ugly in the beginning.

How nice does that sound? To know your partner thought you were an ugly, repulsive mug when you first met them, and the only reason they like your body now is because the chemicals in their brain called 'love' has blinded them.

Research has shown when people are in 'love' their brain underestimates negatives qualities and overestimates positive qualities, and you'll be attracted to them no matter what they look like. Love really is blind.

Yes, this is actually someone wishing girls and women were more shallow.

Maybe I'm not the only one, a lot of us Aspie males have struggled to make friends, talk to women or make social connections, we may have struggled with relationships due to our lack of social skills.

So, for some of us, we almost must use looks to gain leverage, because our 'character' and 'personality' or lack thereof aren't sufficient enough to gain any attention from women at all, let alone end up on a date with one.

Plenty of aspie men here are friendly, good and caring people.

But I see some women say 'niceness' is 'boring' and the 'bare minimum' of what a guy can be and 'if niceness is your only redeeming quality, you must be a very boring person'.

Well, not everyone can be or actually wants to be super funny, extraverted, confident, charming etc.

Some people just want to be fit and healthy, yet 'nice' and a good listener.

At this point, maybe the key is to use online dating and Tinder and if you're rejected, say you want to only be their friend and do that - only be their friend.

Get to know a ridiculously high amount of them, and actually be their friend. Spend time with them in purely platonic activities, and make sure she is 100% aware they aren't dates.

Do this, make 25 female friends, be friends with all of them for 2-6 years, and see if you get lucky and one falls for you.