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jrjones9933
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22 Oct 2016, 7:56 am

Okay. You can find news stories that go into detail on specific cases, but here are my impressions.

Episcopalians used to be the rich liberal religion of West Texas, although plenty of people follow it. The Episcopal church is the US branch of the Anglican church, in some sense. Each church is under the direct supervision of both a local board and a bishop. Everybody reports to the Archbishop of Canterbury, but they don't consider him infallible. When he started to support equality and specifically marriage equality, the Texas bishops generally dragged their feet but went along. This put them into conflict with the local boards of some churches. It wouldn't be enough for the local board to request a new priest, because they would get another one assigned by the same bishop. Most of the small town churches depend on the diocese to find priests, and the financial relationships between the churches and the diocese can be arcane since they were written long, long ago. The lawyers for the boards figured out that they could choose to be under the authority of any bishop, so some of them have rebranded themselves Anglican churches and placed themselves under the authority of homophobic bishops from Africa. It's a surprise move from a population with a lot of racists, but I guess they hate the gays more. It turns out that the Texas people were surprised to learn that some of their new bishops hold reprehensible attitudes toward women, as well. I find the culture clash they stepped into particularly hilarious.

The diocese also has lawyers. They accepted the boards' decisions, and then notified them that they needed to find a new home since they are no longer part of the diocese. The boards seemed to forget that diocese owns either the church building or the land on which it is built. It's been in court for years, as far as I know, but I haven't followed it and I no longer ask my parents for updates on the situation.


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Last edited by jrjones9933 on 22 Oct 2016, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

pddtwinmom
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22 Oct 2016, 8:33 am

Lots of false (or questionable) equivalencies in this thread.

Racism/sexism means thinking that people are less than others or should have fewer explicit or implied rights than others, just based on how they were born. Is that equal to calling someone a nasty name like "deplorable"? That judgment is based on what the insulted people believe, not based on their mere existence.

Politically influencing religion has existed since the beginning of time. One could argue that all religious bodies are inherently political. Is that equal to murdering millions based on their religious beliefs??

All insults are not equal. All objectionable beliefs are not equal. Some are direct and present threats to the physical safety of real, living, people. If you're offended by something, check the level of severity of the threat.

One candidate makes me feel physically unsafe, and worried about the safety of MILLIONS of other people. And that candidate is unapologetic about the threats. There is absolutely guilt by association, too. Because if that doesn't bother you, then why would I believe that you'd do anything to protect me as your neighbor? The other candidate, I find morally questionable at times. But, that one has not issued threats, and has also stood up to things that would threaten my family's physical safety (and the safety of millions of others). Put on a scale, there's no question in terms of how I'll vote.

I don't like one candidate, but I'm afraid of the other. I don't know how anyone could ignore that threat, and it makes me question the values of those that do.



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22 Oct 2016, 4:33 pm

pddtwinmom wrote:
Lots of false (or questionable) equivalencies in this thread.

Racism/sexism means thinking that people are less than others or should have fewer explicit or implied rights than others, just based on how they were born. Is that equal to calling someone a nasty name like "deplorable"? That judgment is based on what the insulted people believe, not based on their mere existence.

Politically influencing religion has existed since the beginning of time. One could argue that all religious bodies are inherently political. Is that equal to murdering millions based on their religious beliefs??

All insults are not equal. All objectionable beliefs are not equal. Some are direct and present threats to the physical safety of real, living, people. If you're offended by something, check the level of severity of the threat.

One candidate makes me feel physically unsafe, and worried about the safety of MILLIONS of other people. And that candidate is unapologetic about the threats. There is absolutely guilt by association, too. Because if that doesn't bother you, then why would I believe that you'd do anything to protect me as your neighbor? The other candidate, I find morally questionable at times. But, that one has not issued threats, and has also stood up to things that would threaten my family's physical safety (and the safety of millions of others). Put on a scale, there's no question in terms of how I'll vote.

I don't like one candidate, but I'm afraid of the other. I don't know how anyone could ignore that threat, and it makes me question the values of those that do.


100% AMEN!


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24 Oct 2016, 7:08 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
So, I think the suggested argument is that saying these nasty people are deplorable is declaring Trump and his other followers of guilt by association, is that right?

If so, then there may be some who are doing that, but that's not what motivated me about looking at the deplorable views of some who have been emboldened by the Trump campaign.

I think Trump is directly guilty of inciting bigotry of several kinds.
That and not any sort of guilt by association is the problem.

Trump says things that make people feel hated for their race, ethnicity, religion or gender, and those words make other hateful people feel vindicated, and encouraged to spread those bigoted ideas.

I don't think all (or even most) Trump fans are guilty of fostering these ideas nor do I wish to imply such a thing.

I do think it strange that people who aren't racist, xenophobic or misogynist are more or less comfortable with someone who says these kinds of things. I am guessing that they are willing to overlook those things in order to focus on what they see as the main point.


"Trump says things that make people feel hated for their race, ethnicity, religion or gender, and those words make other hateful people feel vindicated, and encouraged to spread those bigoted ideas."

This sounds exactly like what you are doing with this thread - the word "Deplorable" came from Clinton's own mouth and now you're making this thread by "spreading those bigoted ideas". Clinton said the same kind of crap about Catholics and Christians. I see her as the next Hitler. You just don't want to see it.


Catholics are Christians.


Depends where you find yourself in the Bible Belt.
Follow this link to find an alternative view from none other than the infamous Jack Chick (he can explain it all for you!):
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp
[disclaimer: the above views are not my own! I don't do conspiracy theory, even if it claims to be the true word 'o God]


Yeah, I've seen Jack Chick's cartoons, and the Lovecraft/Cthulhu parody of one of them that he sued over.


Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.


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24 Oct 2016, 9:02 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.

Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)



nurseangela
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24 Oct 2016, 9:05 pm

AspE wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.

Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)


You are offensive. Have some respect for the dead for Christ's sake.


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wilburforce
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24 Oct 2016, 9:51 pm

nurseangela wrote:
AspE wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.

Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)


You are offensive. Have some respect for the dead for Christ's sake.


Free speech! It's his right to be offensive, you don't have a right to be offended. PC police! :lol:


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Kraichgauer
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25 Oct 2016, 2:47 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
So, I think the suggested argument is that saying these nasty people are deplorable is declaring Trump and his other followers of guilt by association, is that right?

If so, then there may be some who are doing that, but that's not what motivated me about looking at the deplorable views of some who have been emboldened by the Trump campaign.

I think Trump is directly guilty of inciting bigotry of several kinds.
That and not any sort of guilt by association is the problem.

Trump says things that make people feel hated for their race, ethnicity, religion or gender, and those words make other hateful people feel vindicated, and encouraged to spread those bigoted ideas.

I don't think all (or even most) Trump fans are guilty of fostering these ideas nor do I wish to imply such a thing.

I do think it strange that people who aren't racist, xenophobic or misogynist are more or less comfortable with someone who says these kinds of things. I am guessing that they are willing to overlook those things in order to focus on what they see as the main point.


"Trump says things that make people feel hated for their race, ethnicity, religion or gender, and those words make other hateful people feel vindicated, and encouraged to spread those bigoted ideas."

This sounds exactly like what you are doing with this thread - the word "Deplorable" came from Clinton's own mouth and now you're making this thread by "spreading those bigoted ideas". Clinton said the same kind of crap about Catholics and Christians. I see her as the next Hitler. You just don't want to see it.


Catholics are Christians.


Depends where you find yourself in the Bible Belt.
Follow this link to find an alternative view from none other than the infamous Jack Chick (he can explain it all for you!):
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp
[disclaimer: the above views are not my own! I don't do conspiracy theory, even if it claims to be the true word 'o God]


Yeah, I've seen Jack Chick's cartoons, and the Lovecraft/Cthulhu parody of one of them that he sued over.


Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.


Not knowing the mechanics of the law very well, I have to ask, does that mean that his ridiculous and frivolous law suit against the maker of that Cthulhu parody strip died with him? Or can his estate still pursue it in court?


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25 Oct 2016, 5:56 am

wilburforce wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
AspE wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.
Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)
You are offensive.  Have some respect for the dead for Christ's sake.
Free speech!  It's his right to be offensive, you don't have a right to be offended.  PC police!   :lol:
disagreeing with people is a part of free speech too :) 


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wilburforce
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25 Oct 2016, 6:10 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
AspE wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.
Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)
You are offensive.  Have some respect for the dead for Christ's sake.
Free speech!  It's his right to be offensive, you don't have a right to be offended.  PC police!   :lol:
disagreeing with people is a part of free speech too :) 


Um, my comment was sarcasm. I thought the laughing emoji made that obvious.


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naturalplastic
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25 Oct 2016, 6:14 am

If you actually watched the debate you know that Trump muttered that "such a nasty woman" comment when she was not even being particularly nasty. In fact it was during one of the rare moments when either took a break from being nasty to actually talk about the issues. :lol: She was talking at length about policy, and he didn't have the attention span to listen, and got flustered.

But- like the nasty women comment -Hillary shouldn't have said that "half of Trump supporters are in a basket of deplorables".

Half of the supporters of either major candidate in a given election would be roughly half-of-half (one quarter) of the whole US population.

Its neither accurate, nor politic, to slander one quarter of the US population.

She shoulda said that "less than one percent of the US population is deplorable", but of that one percent- most of them vote for Trump (ie the KKKers and the Neo Nazis etc). That would be fine (both politic, and probably rather accurate). :lol:



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25 Oct 2016, 6:14 am

wilburforce wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
AspE wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.
Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)
You are offensive.  Have some respect for the dead for Christ's sake.
Free speech!  It's his right to be offensive, you don't have a right to be offended.  PC police!   :lol:
disagreeing with people is a part of free speech too :)
Um, my comment was sarcasm.   I thought the laughing emoji made that obvious.
I didn't realise lol


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Kraichgauer
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25 Oct 2016, 12:28 pm

Bill Maher had commented on how the majority of Trump supporters actually don't fit the stereotype of underclass Americans who are losing jobs to immigrants (legal and illegal), and they aren't being marginalized by the elites, and whatever else is supposed to apply to them. Most of them in fact make an annual income of at least $71,000. As Maher says, they're just a bunch of "whiny little b*tches" who despise those less fortunate than them. If that aint deplorable, I don't know what is.


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Pravda
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25 Oct 2016, 2:40 pm

Jack Chick:


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25 Oct 2016, 4:04 pm

AspE wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Jack Chick died yesterday at age 92.

Thanks, I needed cheering up today! :)

I wonder if you were happy about the Charlie Hebdo massacre too.



Pravda
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25 Oct 2016, 4:06 pm

Guy who spent his adult life ignorantly smearing Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, gay people, feminists, f*****g D&D players dies of natural causes at the ripe old age of 92 =/= an act of politically motivated mass murder.


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Last edited by Pravda on 25 Oct 2016, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.