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markowhite
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04 Nov 2016, 10:29 pm

I'm having trouble keeping a job long term, and it's a big problem for me

the last two bosses I had payed me less than my co-workers when we were doing the same job
raising this issue got me fired on both occasions
when an issue is both sensitive and black/white like my pay was; I'm entirely unable to negotiate

the crux of the problem is that people think the concessions they give me entitle them to something back
I'm not sure if it's right or wrong, but I encounter that kind of thinking a lot.
"we're good enough to employ someone with aspergers, so he shouldn't mind taking all the worst jobs"
"we put up with his dyslexic kitchen dockets, so we won't pay him overtime"

I struggle consistently with the authority dynamic, something that has plagued me right through my youth
being told what to do isn't an issue, I am known for working hard
but when I'm not on a level playing field I can't manage the relationship, separate what's friendly banter from what is a managerial request, the distinction between "query" and "challenge",

I also seriously struggle to distinguish between priority and non-priority tasks, unless I'm explicitly told
and I can't mask my emotions, often I seem to be punished not for what I do, but for how I feel

a lack of understanding about how I operate leads to people patronizing me daily, I can't blame people but it just wears me down
the irony is I never have trouble with customers, they are immediately understanding and considerate
I guess I'm hard to work with, but people arn't honest with me about my problems for fear of being rude

I Just don't know what kind of jobs are suited to me, the only advice I've been given (arts, micro business) amounts to "don't work with other people"
I have run a small business and didn't do badly, but I couldn't make it work long term



Aspergers445
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12 Nov 2016, 7:09 pm

markowhite wrote:
I'm having trouble keeping a job long term, and it's a big problem for me

the last two bosses I had payed me less than my co-workers when we were doing the same job
raising this issue got me fired on both occasions
when an issue is both sensitive and black/white like my pay was; I'm entirely unable to negotiate

the crux of the problem is that people think the concessions they give me entitle them to something back
I'm not sure if it's right or wrong, but I encounter that kind of thinking a lot.
"we're good enough to employ someone with aspergers, so he shouldn't mind taking all the worst jobs"
"we put up with his dyslexic kitchen dockets, so we won't pay him overtime"

I struggle consistently with the authority dynamic, something that has plagued me right through my youth
being told what to do isn't an issue, I am known for working hard
but when I'm not on a level playing field I can't manage the relationship, separate what's friendly banter from what is a managerial request, the distinction between "query" and "challenge",

I also seriously struggle to distinguish between priority and non-priority tasks, unless I'm explicitly told
and I can't mask my emotions, often I seem to be punished not for what I do, but for how I feel

a lack of understanding about how I operate leads to people patronizing me daily, I can't blame people but it just wears me down
the irony is I never have trouble with customers, they are immediately understanding and considerate
I guess I'm hard to work with, but people arn't honest with me about my problems for fear of being rude

I Just don't know what kind of jobs are suited to me, the only advice I've been given (arts, micro business) amounts to "don't work with other people"
I have run a small business and didn't do badly, but I couldn't make it work long term


I know this feeling. I have managed to keep a seasonal job for two and a half years but having to re-apply in between as its a resort hotel. Previously my contracts ended in November time. Last year a lot of my colleagues had their contracts extended until December and this year has got worse as I felt almost the odd one out and I believe its to do with my ASD. That sounds very prejudice if you ask me. I have been messed about, felt I could not do anything right plus I thought my team leader was going to invite me to a disciplinary hearing. Well now my third contract has ended and now I am unemployed and trying to look for a permanent job. I want something that is autistic friendly that's all.

Another thing that has annoyed me about my previous job is that I don't get praised for my work or much of a thank you and I think that is downright rude!

Well this is proof that potential employers are very good at discriminating aspies. I am not sure I can trust them now.



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12 Nov 2016, 7:26 pm

You need a job where black/white thinking is an advantage, rather than a disadvantage.

I've heard that picking crops is one such job.

A short order cook may be another good job--no customer interaction and you just cook stuff as the orders come in.

It may help to watch what your co-workers do compared to what they get told. Doing way too much is worse than doing too little, in many jobs--unless you rise to "alpha status."



markowhite
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20 Jan 2017, 8:28 pm

thankfully I'm not anxious about dealing with people at all
my experience is that customers do notice from time to time; but they never seem to mind
if anything, the community is more understanding than my co-workers

I got a new job a couple of weeks ago but I've already missed three shifts because I'm having trouble reading the roster correctly
when I worked full time it was dead easy, set alarm, get up at the same time every day
...sometimes I would even turn up for work on my days off
but now that I'm only working a few shifts a week I just don't know what to do



Kohen
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21 Jan 2017, 6:04 am

Thing is, you just do what you are told and you accept whatever terms and wage you get. If it is unacceptable, you don't stay there any longer or don't apply in the first place

If there are social issues, a job without human interaction is better. There are many examples

But never look for something perfect in every manner, because that doesn't exist. No job fits you perfectly, always going to be something you don't like that you'll have to accept



Fireblossom
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21 Jan 2017, 1:58 pm

That is unfortunate, but try to think positively: even if you can't keep a job for long, at least you're able to get them. Of course it'd be better to have a permanent source of money, but if you've had many places to work at that means you aren't a complete lost cause in people's eyes. Just keep trying and avoid repeating your mistakes; that way you might eventually find a job that suits you.



SocOfAutism
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24 Jan 2017, 11:59 am

Some people can pick up on autistic mannerisms. Unfortunately, it is still socially acceptable for people to discriminate against people who are autistic or who seem autistic.

First, I would advise you to try to pinpoint which actions you are displaying that the people in authority over you are picking up on. Is it the way you talk? How quickly you get back with them? The way you do things? The way you dress? There is probably more than one thing.

Once you've done that, I would actually NOT advise you to mask whatever it is you're doing. You certainly could mask your autism, or pass, but I think if you purposefully started doing that as an adult it would be too stressful and not worth it.

Instead, you could combat whatever it is that is being picked up on by assertive methods that will be recognized by the authority. Let's say that you do not respond to phone calls. You could start immediately responding to all phone calls with an email. That way you avoid the unpleasantness of a phone call (or in-person visit) but you are still satisfying the demand. Or let's say you do not appear to pay attention in meetings. You could take notes on what is going on and either periodically make a comment related to what people say, or send a follow-up email regarding the meeting happenings.

There's a autism-friendly workaround to any not-autism friendly work problem and it could help you be seen in a better light.



Nades
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24 Jan 2017, 1:52 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
Some people can pick up on autistic mannerisms. Unfortunately, it is still socially acceptable for people to discriminate against people who are autistic or who seem autistic.

First, I would advise you to try to pinpoint which actions you are displaying that the people in authority over you are picking up on. Is it the way you talk? How quickly you get back with them? The way you do things? The way you dress? There is probably more than one thing.

Once you've done that, I would actually NOT advise you to mask whatever it is you're doing. You certainly could mask your autism, or pass, but I think if you purposefully started doing that as an adult it would be too stressful and not worth it.

Instead, you could combat whatever it is that is being picked up on by assertive methods that will be recognized by the authority. Let's say that you do not respond to phone calls. You could start immediately responding to all phone calls with an email. That way you avoid the unpleasantness of a phone call (or in-person visit) but you are still satisfying the demand. Or let's say you do not appear to pay attention in meetings. You could take notes on what is going on and either periodically make a comment related to what people say, or send a follow-up email regarding the meeting happenings.

There's a autism-friendly workaround to any not-autism friendly work problem and it could help you be seen in a better light.


I have the same problem in work but it's sadly my mannerisms that they target. They mistake my poor social skills and general refusal to talk about my personal life as low intelligence, even though I have a better education than all but one of them who is my equal really. In work I'm the village idiot to sum it up and everything I say and do is wrong, regardless of how minor is it, and has to be challenged. Even if I do something right it'll still be wrong because any agreement or concession to the "village idiots" point of view is something they find utterly abhorrent.

Most of my average working day revolves around being heckled every 15 minute, sometimes every 30 if I'm lucky, asked how many times I had sex and how big my blue balls are asked if I have sex with my cat, me having a pet cat is one of the few snippets of personal info Iv'e given them and if something as mundane as having a pet cat can result in 2 years of bestiality ridicule then I'm obviously going to tell them NOTHING at all about even my favourate TV shows.

I think that jobs can suit some aspies and disability benefits suit others. The workplace can actually be a very toxic environment for an aspie regardless of what others say and is better off avoided for life for some if bullying is a regular occurrence.



SocOfAutism
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25 Jan 2017, 10:07 am

Nades wrote:
I have the same problem in work but it's sadly my mannerisms that they target. They mistake my poor social skills and general refusal to talk about my personal life as low intelligence, even though I have a better education than all but one of them who is my equal really. In work I'm the village idiot to sum it up and everything I say and do is wrong, regardless of how minor is it, and has to be challenged. Even if I do something right it'll still be wrong because any agreement or concession to the "village idiots" point of view is something they find utterly abhorrent.

Most of my average working day revolves around being heckled every 15 minute, sometimes every 30 if I'm lucky, asked how many times I had sex and how big my blue balls are asked if I have sex with my cat, me having a pet cat is one of the few snippets of personal info Iv'e given them and if something as mundane as having a pet cat can result in 2 years of bestiality ridicule then I'm obviously going to tell them NOTHING at all about even my favourate TV shows.

I think that jobs can suit some aspies and disability benefits suit others. The workplace can actually be a very toxic environment for an aspie regardless of what others say and is better off avoided for life for some if bullying is a regular occurrence.


Holy sh*t. That really sucks.

You make me think of this guy my husband works with. My husband is well-respected at his job, which is a key position in his company. He's autistic, but I doubt that the people who work with him fully understand what autism is. This younger guy he works with is also obviously autistic, but no one seems to know it, including him. My husband will sometimes try to help him out a little bit and tell him what to do, but it's clear that his general behavior- way of walking, speaking, his interests, get him no respect, no matter what his education and capabilities are.

One of the things my husband does which has always worked well for him is use his "autism blankness" to his advantage. If someone is messing with him, he will look at them dead in their eyes and say something HORRIBLE to them. It scares the h*ll out whoever is trying to mess with him and they instantly respect (fear) him. Then he'll fake laugh and be like, "Hey just joking with you man." He is well liked at work. Even when he was a kid in school he acted like this and he was very popular.

Like with this cat situation...He might respond to these jokes with something like "No, actually I ate YOUR cat after I finishing f***ing your mother. Go home and check." Wait a couple of beats. Then "Hahaha, no I'm just kidding." Maybe even clap them on the back.

With the education thing...maybe wait until one of them says something about themselves and then ask them, "What was it that you studied in college again, Greg?" When you happen to know that this Greg didn't go to college at all. Or "Did your parents come to your graduation, Steve?" When you happen to know that Steve didn't finish school. It's good to include their name. It's like that clap on the back- it owns them.

And I would make sure that whatever you say is truly horrible. Something where you inwardly cringe to say it. You don't want it to be fun for them to hear, otherwise they will keep picking at you thinking you're "friends." You want them to go "woah. that dude is hard core."

It doesn't matter if you have to plan out some of these things beforehand and then come in and do them one at time. You can't let people treat you that way. It's like they're waging a war on you. You have to defend yourself. You don't deserve to be pummeled like that.



Nades
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25 Jan 2017, 12:25 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:


but it's clear that his general behavior- way of walking, speaking, his interests, get him no respect, no matter what his education and capabilities are.

One of the things my husband does which has always worked well for him is use his "autism blankness" to his advantage. If someone is messing with him, he will look at them dead in their eyes and say something HORRIBLE to them. It scares the h*ll out whoever is trying to mess with him and they instantly respect (fear) him. Then he'll fake laugh and be like, "Hey just joking with you man." He is well liked at work. Even when he was a kid in school he acted like this and he was very popular.

Like with this cat situation...He might respond to these jokes with something like "No, actually I ate YOUR cat after I finishing f***ing your mother. Go home and check." Wait a couple of beats. Then "Hahaha, no I'm just kidding." Maybe even clap them on the back.

With the education thing...maybe wait until one of them says something about themselves and then ask them, "What was it that you studied in college again, Greg?" When you happen to know that this Greg didn't go to college at all. Or "Did your parents come to your graduation, Steve?" When you happen to know that Steve didn't finish school. It's good to include their name. It's like that clap on the back- it owns them.

And I would make sure that whatever you say is truly horrible. Something where you inwardly cringe to say it. You don't want it to be fun for them to hear, otherwise they will keep picking at you thinking you're "friends." You want them to go "woah. that dude is hard core."

It doesn't matter if you have to plan out some of these things beforehand and then come in and do them one at time. You can't let people treat you that way. It's like they're waging a war on you. You have to defend yourself. You don't deserve to be pummeled like that.


Yes. Sadly it's someones overall mannerisms is what can be the target. I can have degree's coming out of my arse and I'll still be the village idiot, only this time other people with degree's will think that which is even worse. I would rather be assumed to be an idiot by people who haven't even finished school than someone with qualifications to their name. I been to two universities so far and both times the social aspect is what effected me most. I was always the runt of the litter that had to be belittled at every opportunity so I just didn't bother finishing the courses because I got a taster of my future colleges and didn't like the taste.

The autism blankness idea is something I'm starting to dabble with. I'm trying to act as creepy as I can when confronted with ridiculous comments about me. When a convo in the canteen turned to a recent shooting and they implied that I'll be the type of person to do it I just said "yeah, I know who I'm gonna take out first here"

Recently in a staff meeting however I noticed something very odd. The manager started talking to all of us about what to do when someone was pissing us off and to accurately paraphrase said "This is work guys, when we get home at the end of the day that's were work ends and I forget about what I done here. Iv'e had some massive arguments here and I never hold any grudges afterwards because it's just work" He then looked directly at me and with a smile said "If someones pissing you off just have a fight about it. I don't care how big it is" I think he may have noticed that I have been targeted excessively because he seemed to be implying, even with my hopeless non verbal coms skills that I start a massive shitstorm.

At the end of the day though I think if someone who has aspergers is/has been bullied regularly in almost all jobs they have had then they should try and live on benefits. Bullying is very bad for your health and there's no point in going from one snake pit to the next. Just throw in the towel and let the tax payers give something in return for once. Don't feel guilty, let them reap what they sow and hit them in their wallets.



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25 Jan 2017, 12:37 pm

I'd have to guess that a lot of Aspies make the mistake of being right.
They are right, they know it, and they won't let go. Let it go.