Emotional Labour and the Autistic Spectrum
05 Jan 2017, 11:26 pm
justkillingtime wrote:
i am a slow reader, so i just read a little. it reminds me of the movie "the color purple". the character celie performed emotional labor (as i understand the meaning of emotional labor) and was very unappreciated.
I wonder if that's part of the reason why so many women who have raised families can relate to that character? I would agree Celie's story is a good example of the price of emotional labour that goes unrecognised and unappreciated (or as in her case is abused.)
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
androbot01
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Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 53
Gender: Female
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Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
06 Jan 2017, 9:17 am
I haven't read the essay and likely won't as it is far beyond my attention span right now. I get the idea though and I think there is a lot of truth to it.
It is not surprising that a dominant group would subvert the other into serving their needs and keeping quiet about it.
This is one circumstance in which I believe my autism gives me an edge in that I am not concerned with the needs of others. I have no "maternal" instinct that can be exploited. Any care that I have for others comes from thinking and working, not naturally. That's not to say that I don't care, just that I have to work at it, to work at being aware of others at all.
06 Jan 2017, 10:27 pm
androbot01 wrote:
I haven't read the essay and likely won't as it is far beyond my attention span right now. I get the idea though and I think there is a lot of truth to it.
It is not surprising that a dominant group would subvert the other into serving their needs and keeping quiet about it.
This is one circumstance in which I believe my autism gives me an edge in that I am not concerned with the needs of others. I have no "maternal" instinct that can be exploited. Any care that I have for others comes from thinking and working, not naturally. That's not to say that I don't care, just that I have to work at it, to work at being aware of others at all.
It is not surprising that a dominant group would subvert the other into serving their needs and keeping quiet about it.
This is one circumstance in which I believe my autism gives me an edge in that I am not concerned with the needs of others. I have no "maternal" instinct that can be exploited. Any care that I have for others comes from thinking and working, not naturally. That's not to say that I don't care, just that I have to work at it, to work at being aware of others at all.
I don't have much of a maternal instinct either, and what I do have seems to be directed at animals rather than babies. I just don't feel much of a tending/nurturing impulse towards other people like I do with animals. Nurturing impulses towards people I feel I have to cultivate by thinking and working, as you say, it doesn't come naturally. I don't think this makes me a cold or unfeeling person because I share a lot of emotional empathy with people I am close to, it just means I have to work at how to demonstrate that empathy actively and I have to think consciously about how to show the people that I empathise with that I care about them. Often the ways I do this are atypical and so aren't interpreted as care, which makes me feel useless because there is so much pressure as a woman to care for others, to always be nurturing and caring for everyone around me and I feel like I fail at that when I don't manage to demonstrate my caring in the often narrow and limited acceptable ways. Being self-focused is especially problematic socially when you are female because we (women) are supposedly designed to be outwardly-focused, to always be concerned for and nurturing those around us rather than ourselves.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
08 Jan 2017, 7:23 am
In my childhood I've always been pretty much left alone and I could do whatever I wanted, so I was usually wandering off somewhere, collecting plants, reading obsessively, playing with colourful buttons... just alone time. Nobody put much pressure at teaching me things, so I kind of developed the way my brain took me. Only around puberty it appeared that I wasn't 'like other girls' when it comes to tidying up/helping out in the house/being aware of 'little things' that need to be done, 'behaving like a girl' and then my mother's hostility started to emerge - although it was pretty much her fault, I've never been shown or given any templates to behave more like a girl/young woman. My teenage years were a constant clash between her expectations of me and me just, as usual, being wildly stubborn and with 'my way or the highway attitude'. I had a brief trial run of dressing more like a typical woman, but honestly, I felt like a clown most of the time and I was choosing inappropriate clothes for occasions anyway, very weird make up etc. I've always felt like a genderless creature anyway, before anyone even mentioned different genders (imagine my joy when I found out that there are non-binary people out there!)
The biggest challenge was my marriage - the expectations hit the roof and many things I considered unfair - I was about sharing EVERYTHING equally, you work, I work, you clean, I clean, you change nappies, I change nappies. You do your ironing, I do mine. I know it never really works like that in relationships, but I was very very rigid about this 'fair division'. Mother-in-law was giving me talks constantly, I used to reply 'well, we do have different opinions and I'll do it my way anyway'. Her husband did absolutely nothing at home and she waited on him, while he was just lazing around drinking beer and flicking TV channels - I thought her attitude was pathetic, like an unpaid servant... who's trying to force me into the same role. No way. It played on my mind a lot though, I was depressed and on meds twice during the married life times. I felt trapped and on and on, was constantly being told I'm inadequate and 'what's wrong with you?!"
Well, I'm finally back to my wild ways, divorced, on my own, co-parenting with my ex husband. And guess what? I feel like I can be myself, no expectations from another adult wandering around my space, no in-laws, no family dramas. Man, I feel free. I enjoy being a mother of an older child (she's 11), it's sometimes overwhelming, but we do have a very good trusting relationship and the only problem is (problem? really?) I will not teach my daughter to be this nurturing, subservient, emotionally tuned to problems/needs of others feminine human being.
But I'll teach her many other things that are way more important.
08 Jan 2017, 5:34 pm
RandomFox wrote:
In my childhood I've always been pretty much left alone and I could do whatever I wanted, so I was usually wandering off somewhere, collecting plants, reading obsessively, playing with colourful buttons... just alone time. Nobody put much pressure at teaching me things, so I kind of developed the way my brain took me. Only around puberty it appeared that I wasn't 'like other girls' when it comes to tidying up/helping out in the house/being aware of 'little things' that need to be done, 'behaving like a girl' and then my mother's hostility started to emerge - although it was pretty much her fault, I've never been shown or given any templates to behave more like a girl/young woman. My teenage years were a constant clash between her expectations of me and me just, as usual, being wildly stubborn and with 'my way or the highway attitude'. I had a brief trial run of dressing more like a typical woman, but honestly, I felt like a clown most of the time and I was choosing inappropriate clothes for occasions anyway, very weird make up etc. I've always felt like a genderless creature anyway, before anyone even mentioned different genders (imagine my joy when I found out that there are non-binary people out there!)
The biggest challenge was my marriage - the expectations hit the roof and many things I considered unfair - I was about sharing EVERYTHING equally, you work, I work, you clean, I clean, you change nappies, I change nappies. You do your ironing, I do mine. I know it never really works like that in relationships, but I was very very rigid about this 'fair division'. Mother-in-law was giving me talks constantly, I used to reply 'well, we do have different opinions and I'll do it my way anyway'. Her husband did absolutely nothing at home and she waited on him, while he was just lazing around drinking beer and flicking TV channels - I thought her attitude was pathetic, like an unpaid servant... who's trying to force me into the same role. No way. It played on my mind a lot though, I was depressed and on meds twice during the married life times. I felt trapped and on and on, was constantly being told I'm inadequate and 'what's wrong with you?!"
Well, I'm finally back to my wild ways, divorced, on my own, co-parenting with my ex husband. And guess what? I feel like I can be myself, no expectations from another adult wandering around my space, no in-laws, no family dramas. Man, I feel free. I enjoy being a mother of an older child (she's 11), it's sometimes overwhelming, but we do have a very good trusting relationship and the only problem is (problem? really?) I will not teach my daughter to be this nurturing, subservient, emotionally tuned to problems/needs of others feminine human being.
But I'll teach her many other things that are way more important.
The biggest challenge was my marriage - the expectations hit the roof and many things I considered unfair - I was about sharing EVERYTHING equally, you work, I work, you clean, I clean, you change nappies, I change nappies. You do your ironing, I do mine. I know it never really works like that in relationships, but I was very very rigid about this 'fair division'. Mother-in-law was giving me talks constantly, I used to reply 'well, we do have different opinions and I'll do it my way anyway'. Her husband did absolutely nothing at home and she waited on him, while he was just lazing around drinking beer and flicking TV channels - I thought her attitude was pathetic, like an unpaid servant... who's trying to force me into the same role. No way. It played on my mind a lot though, I was depressed and on meds twice during the married life times. I felt trapped and on and on, was constantly being told I'm inadequate and 'what's wrong with you?!"
Well, I'm finally back to my wild ways, divorced, on my own, co-parenting with my ex husband. And guess what? I feel like I can be myself, no expectations from another adult wandering around my space, no in-laws, no family dramas. Man, I feel free. I enjoy being a mother of an older child (she's 11), it's sometimes overwhelming, but we do have a very good trusting relationship and the only problem is (problem? really?) I will not teach my daughter to be this nurturing, subservient, emotionally tuned to problems/needs of others feminine human being.
But I'll teach her many other things that are way more important.
I've heard from so many women who feel the way you do--like they were trapped for a long time by traditional relationships and the gender expectations that go along with them, but now are free. It seems to be especially common among aspie females who didn't receive or couldn't properly internalise the full "female domestic" training from our mothers/female relatives/friends. I feel the same way about the one LTR that I had that almost became a marriage. I tried so hard when I was younger to be "normal" and have the sort of relationship all my friends were having, but when I realised what a trap it was and how I would be putting myself into indentured servitude (because the man I was with would never be my equal domestically or emotionally) for the rest of my life I bailed and I have never looked back. There seem to be many women of our generation doing the same, learning that they can live alone successfully and don't have to buy into that life that is really a trap, a cage. I've even heard of older single or divorced women living communally to save money (like groups of 4-5 friends buying a house together) and sharing the domestic chores and caring for one another.
They say it is increasing our life expectancy, this learning to live alone (or in small groups of other women) and without the shackles of traditional domesticity, and I think it's wonderful. The value of freedom cannot be quantified.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
09 Jan 2017, 7:21 am
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
_________________
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. – Satan and TwilightPrincess
09 Jan 2017, 6:08 pm
Twilightprincess wrote:
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
That last bit that I bolded especially, I can relate to--it feels like that is what our training as little girls is geared towards, from the start: making everyone else happy, taking care of everyone else but ourselves. Any self-care or self-concern is dismissed as selfish and wrong. No wonder so many of us end up exhausted and giving up on certain kinds of relationships. This is an aspect of cultural sexism that I hope dies soon and that the little girls growing up now won't spend their lives feeling like they have to be responsible for everyone else's happiness but their own.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
09 Jan 2017, 7:50 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
That last bit that I bolded especially, I can relate to--it feels like that is what our training as little girls is geared towards, from the start: making everyone else happy, taking care of everyone else but ourselves. Any self-care or self-concern is dismissed as selfish and wrong. No wonder so many of us end up exhausted and giving up on certain kinds of relationships. This is an aspect of cultural sexism that I hope dies soon and that the little girls growing up now won't spend their lives feeling like they have to be responsible for everyone else's happiness but their own.
09 Jan 2017, 8:43 pm
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
That last bit that I bolded especially, I can relate to--it feels like that is what our training as little girls is geared towards, from the start: making everyone else happy, taking care of everyone else but ourselves. Any self-care or self-concern is dismissed as selfish and wrong. No wonder so many of us end up exhausted and giving up on certain kinds of relationships. This is an aspect of cultural sexism that I hope dies soon and that the little girls growing up now won't spend their lives feeling like they have to be responsible for everyone else's happiness but their own.
I've already talked about my experience of it throughout this thread. Just read my comments. I don't really want to have a debate about sexism with a guy in this thread though, that's not my purpose for making it. I want to hear from other women on the spectrum and their experiences with emotional labour and sexism and how those things have intersected in their lives as autistic women.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
09 Jan 2017, 8:45 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
That last bit that I bolded especially, I can relate to--it feels like that is what our training as little girls is geared towards, from the start: making everyone else happy, taking care of everyone else but ourselves. Any self-care or self-concern is dismissed as selfish and wrong. No wonder so many of us end up exhausted and giving up on certain kinds of relationships. This is an aspect of cultural sexism that I hope dies soon and that the little girls growing up now won't spend their lives feeling like they have to be responsible for everyone else's happiness but their own.
I've already talked about my experience of it throughout this thread. Just read my comments. I don't really want to have a debate about sexism with a guy in this thread though, that's not my purpose for making it. I want to hear from other women on the spectrum and their experiences with emotional labour and sexism and how those things have intersected in their lives as autistic women.
09 Jan 2017, 9:05 pm
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
That last bit that I bolded especially, I can relate to--it feels like that is what our training as little girls is geared towards, from the start: making everyone else happy, taking care of everyone else but ourselves. Any self-care or self-concern is dismissed as selfish and wrong. No wonder so many of us end up exhausted and giving up on certain kinds of relationships. This is an aspect of cultural sexism that I hope dies soon and that the little girls growing up now won't spend their lives feeling like they have to be responsible for everyone else's happiness but their own.
I've already talked about my experience of it throughout this thread. Just read my comments. I don't really want to have a debate about sexism with a guy in this thread though, that's not my purpose for making it. I want to hear from other women on the spectrum and their experiences with emotional labour and sexism and how those things have intersected in their lives as autistic women.
So read my comments. If you "gave up on debating" me, then why are you here commenting in my thread and asking me questions? That doesn't inspire me to share my personal experiences with you.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
09 Jan 2017, 9:09 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
This was an interesting and enlightening read. I carried around an absurd amount of EL being married to a narcissist. Since our separation, I feel like a weight has been lifted.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
It's exhausting when you feel you're responsible for everyone else's happiness.
That last bit that I bolded especially, I can relate to--it feels like that is what our training as little girls is geared towards, from the start: making everyone else happy, taking care of everyone else but ourselves. Any self-care or self-concern is dismissed as selfish and wrong. No wonder so many of us end up exhausted and giving up on certain kinds of relationships. This is an aspect of cultural sexism that I hope dies soon and that the little girls growing up now won't spend their lives feeling like they have to be responsible for everyone else's happiness but their own.
I've already talked about my experience of it throughout this thread. Just read my comments. I don't really want to have a debate about sexism with a guy in this thread though, that's not my purpose for making it. I want to hear from other women on the spectrum and their experiences with emotional labour and sexism and how those things have intersected in their lives as autistic women.
So read my comments. If you "gave up on debating" me, then why are you here commenting in my thread and asking me questions? That doesn't inspire me to share my personal experiences with you.
09 Jan 2017, 9:14 pm
Shahunshah wrote:
I was not challenging your assertions. Asking questions is the way you learn.
This thread is not for you to have women's life experiences explained to you. That's not what I made it for. Can you just not, please?
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
09 Jan 2017, 9:22 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
I was not challenging your assertions. Asking questions is the way you learn.
This thread is not for you to have women's life experiences explained to you. That's not what I made it for. Can you just not, please?
09 Jan 2017, 9:55 pm
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
I was not challenging your assertions. Asking questions is the way you learn.
This thread is not for you to have women's life experiences explained to you. That's not what I made it for. Can you just not, please?
Look at what subforum you are in: this subforum does not exist so men can come in and ask that women explain their life experiences to them so they can understand sexism better. The rules are a little different for Women's Discussion--I believe there is a sticky at the top of the subforum's thread list that explains the rules for this particular subforum, you should go read it.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
09 Jan 2017, 9:58 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
I was not challenging your assertions. Asking questions is the way you learn.
This thread is not for you to have women's life experiences explained to you. That's not what I made it for. Can you just not, please?
Look at what subforum you are in: this subforum does not exist so men can come in and ask that women explain their life experiences to them so they can understand sexism better. The rules are a little different for Women's Discussion--I believe there is a sticky at the top of the subforum's thread list that explains the rules for this particular subforum, you should go read it.
Edit: Just read the rules, I am out now this forum is not for debate.
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