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Darmok
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15 Jan 2017, 10:36 am

Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, which began when Ulysses S. Grant was president, is going out of business after 156 years. A major factor was animal rights' activists who forced the elimination of elephants from the show.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/left ... s-44789804

"It's been through world wars, and it's been through every kind of economic cycle and it's been through a lot of change," said Kenneth Feld, chairman and CEO of Feld Entertainment, owner of the Ringling Bros. "In the past decade there's been more change in the world than in the 50 or 75 years prior to that. And I think it isn't relevant to people in the same way."...

Movies, television, video games and the internet captured young minds. The circus didn't have savvy product merchandising tie-ins or Saturday morning cartoons to shore up its image. After 1956, the circus no longer performed under tents, moving to arenas....

Animal rights activists put pressure on cities where the circus toured.... In 2014, Feld Entertainment won $25.2 million in settlements from groups including the Humane Society of the United States, ending a 14-year legal battle over allegations that circus employees mistreated elephants.

The initial lawsuit was filed by a former Ringling barn helper who accepted at least $190,000 from animal-rights groups. The judge called him "essentially a paid plaintiff" who lacked credibility and standing to sue, and rejected the abuse claims.

Kenneth Feld testified about the elephants' importance to the show at that 2009 trial. "The symbol of the 'Greatest Show on Earth' is the elephant, and that's what we've been known for throughout the world for more than a hundred years," he said. Asked whether the show would be the same without elephants, Feld replied, "No, it wouldn't."

And, it wasn't. Feld Entertainment removed the elephants in 2016, sending all 40 of them to their Center for Elephant Conservation in Florida. Ticket sales plummeted. The circus, already an afterthought for many, receded further in the public mind....


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0regonGuy
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15 Jan 2017, 11:07 am

Darmok wrote:
Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, which began when Ulysses S. Grant was president, is going out of business after 156 years. A major factor was animal rights' activists who forced the elimination of elephants from the show.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/left ... s-44789804


Wah, wah, wah. If we can't use elephants, then we are going to shut our circus down. Wah, wah, wah. :cry:

OK, bye bye.
:salut:


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EzraS
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15 Jan 2017, 11:21 am

That's a real shame. Despite not liking crowds and noise etc, I very much enjoyed the couple of times I was taken to a Ringling Bros circus show.

0regonGuy wrote:
Wah, wah, wah. If we can't use elephants, then we are going to shut our circus down. Wah, wah, wah. :cry:

OK, bye bye.
:salut:


Actually it says ticket sales plummeted after the elephants were removed, which forced them out of business.



leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 11:23 am

I grew up watching "Circus Boy" on TV, and I was always thrilled whenever a tent circus would come to town. I was nearly 30 years old (late '70s) when I responded to a help-wanted ad requiring "Free to travel with circus", and my times as a roustabout and mechanic with that 3-ring "mud show" -- rain or shine, we set up the tent -- still hold some great memories.

Here is something from another article I have read:

Quote:
"The competitor in many ways is time," said Feld [the owner]... "...we can't see how [the show as we have known it can work] in today's world..."

We have all heard "Out with the old and in with the new"...and trying to deal with that while now approaching 70 is really tough.


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leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 11:26 am

0regonGuy wrote:
Wah, wah, wah. If we can't use elephants, then we are going to shut our circus down. Wah, wah, wah. :cry:

The matter of elephants was only one factor and far from being the greatest, and the above is not even close to anything coming from the show's owners. They made every effort to keep the show going without elephants and without complaining, and then could only wonder why the people who said they would not attend as long as the elephants were still there still never showed up!


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Misslizard
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15 Jan 2017, 11:38 am

There were numerous credible reports of the elephants being treated badly.The animal rights activists obviously had enough public support to accomplish this.Lots of petitions out there on this.The Humane Society isn't an extremist fringe group.If they say there was abuse,people will believe them.
It was also an insurance issue I believe,just think of the liability expenses.
it was probably a combo of things,lowered attendence,rising insurance costs,transportation expenses and a lack of children running off to join,public distrust of clowns.
So for all the naysayers who claim petitions don't work,they do if enough people sign.Glad I signed. :twisted:

Of course there is a downsize to this,many clowns will be unemployed.We may see another spike in creepy clown sightings.Sad to think of a homeless camp full of clowns.Sad and creepy beyond beleif.


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leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 11:59 am

Misslizard wrote:
There were numerous credible reports of the elephants being treated badly...
So for all the naysayers who claim petitions don't work,they do if enough people sign. Glad I signed. :twisted:

The former handler of elephants for this particular show was apparently being paid to testify, so I believe the judge ultimately ruled in favor of the circus. However, yes, I do understand the complaints of actual mistreatment and/or outright abuse and I would have also argued against allowing those kinds of things to continue. In my own actual experience, however, I know for a fact that not all circus elephants were treated badly...and I greatly enjoyed my own opportunities as a handler! And interestingly, it typically never really mattered who was in the ring with a properly-handled elephant during its performance. That routine had been learned when the animal was young and it only needed to be told to begin...just like anyone anywhere might do with a pet that has been taught to do tricks.

Misslizard wrote:
It was also an insurance issue I believe, just think of the liability expenses...
...probably a combo of things,lowered attendance, rising insurance costs, transportation expenses and a lack of children running off to join, public distrust of clowns...
Of course there is a downsize to this, many clowns will be unemployed...

More than just clowns, of course, and the show is taking steps to find new housing for people whose only home is a car on the tour train. Actual performers will likely find new shows to join, of course, but will likely never be able to find themselves as part of a "family" such as they had always known.


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Sweetleaf
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15 Jan 2017, 12:09 pm

I say if they were mistreating the elephants it serves them right.


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15 Jan 2017, 12:11 pm

I think it's a shame that the circus has to cease to exist for such reasons.


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15 Jan 2017, 12:34 pm

That's really too bad, I remember being taken to one as a kid and have fond memories of the experience.


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leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 12:41 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I say if they were mistreating the elephants it serves them right.

Yes, and that is a big "IF". I am actually not aware of any show ever being shut down because of mistreatment, and that is definitely not what happened here. Overall, it is more like the activists' pressures just made it too difficult or even impossible for them to continue including elephants when certain locations had restrictions related to the display of animals in a particular city, town, county, state or province and it had become a scheduling nightmare to try to keep going while having to exclude certain acts at certain places while still keeping the entire show intact for other places where all of it could be performed.


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Misslizard
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15 Jan 2017, 12:45 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
There were numerous credible reports of the elephants being treated badly...
So for all the naysayers who claim petitions don't work,they do if enough people sign. Glad I signed. :twisted:

The former handler of elephants for this particular show was apparently being paid to testify, so I believe the judge ultimately ruled in favor of the circus. However, yes, I do understand the complaints of actual mistreatment and/or outright abuse and I would have also argued against allowing those kinds of things to continue. In my own actual experience, however, I know for a fact that not all circus elephants were treated badly...and I greatly enjoyed my own opportunities as a handler! And interestingly, it typically never really mattered who was in the ring with a properly-handled elephant during its performance. That routine had been learned when the animal was young and it only needed to be told to begin...just like anyone anywhere might do with a pet that has been taught to do tricks.

Misslizard wrote:
It was also an insurance issue I believe, just think of the liability expenses...
...probably a combo of things,lowered attendance, rising insurance costs, transportation expenses and a lack of children running off to join, public distrust of clowns...
Of course there is a downsize to this, many clowns will be unemployed...

More than just clowns, of course, and the show is taking steps to find new housing for people whose only home is a car on the tour train. Actual performers will likely find new shows to join, of course, but will likely never be able to find themselves as part of a "family" such as they had always known.

I do feel sympathy for those that have lost their jobs and " family." It seems like Ringling would have anticipated this coming and made provisions.They could have set up a circus theme park in Florida and kept the elephants but used them in a different manner.Guided tours thru a preserve and circus based entertainment.So many people go vacation in FL to visit theme parks,so it seems like it would work.

200 miles south of LR? Camden area? I lived near Chidester for a few years.Very strange small town.They used to set the town dump on fire every weekend.Boxcar Bertha was filmed there and in the Reader area.


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leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 12:53 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I do feel sympathy for those that have lost their jobs and " family." It seems like Ringling would have anticipated this coming and made provisions...

That have definitely anticipated the challenges and are working on them, including good homes for all animals. I do not know the latest in relation to Florida theme parks, but it is my guess that the Ringling elephants will be relieved of their duties as performers...and personally, I think that is fine. An era has ended, and I have read some neat stories of elephants actually displaying relief in release from the daily grind!

Misslizard wrote:
200 miles south of LR?

A small town west of the Bonnie & Clyde museum and where people still sometimes burn leaves in the street!


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15 Jan 2017, 1:07 pm

The elephants were my favorite part, though I hadn't been in nearly 30 years. They offered free elephant manure for people to use in their lawns and gardens. I've heard it's quite potent.

But these days, it's almost impossible to pry kids (and some adults) away from their video games, computers, and phones, and I think that was a big factor.


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Misslizard
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15 Jan 2017, 1:58 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I do feel sympathy for those that have lost their jobs and " family." It seems like Ringling would have anticipated this coming and made provisions...

That have definitely anticipated the challenges and are working on them, including good homes for all animals. I do not know the latest in relation to Florida theme parks, but it is my guess that the Ringling elephants will be relieved of their duties as performers...and personally, I think that is fine. An era has ended, and I have read some neat stories of elephants actually displaying relief in release from the daily grind!

Misslizard wrote:
200 miles south of LR?

A small town west of the Bonnie & Clyde museum and where people still sometimes burn leaves in the street!

Lots of pine trees down there and big hungry mosquitos.
Disney used to do a show called Disney on Parade when I was little.I loved it,the Big Bad Wolf even shook my hand and one of the "monkeys" from the Jungle Book performance grabbed my arm when they ran down the aisle.


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15 Jan 2017, 3:18 pm

I am so happy I lived to see this. Their exploitation of animals disgusted me even as a child. I don't need to see animals coerced to dance in contortion for entertainment. So so happy about this.