Atheist moves to Bible Belt from NYC. Advice on fitting in?

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TEEDEE
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18 Jan 2017, 11:26 am

Help! Southerners born and bred, and Yankees who have moved to the South?? I'm moving from NYC, where I'm from, to a small town in the bible belt in the South. My goal is to keep from making enemies for now (I've made a few here already, lols) and maybe eventually to make real friends here (which seems unlikely) but one can hope, can't one? :D I am looking for a way not to have to move here, but for now, I have to, no choice. It's hard enough dealing with people whose culture I understand, but this is really a challenge. I'm an atheist, this is the bible belt. I'm not a confrontational atheist and I just nod and smile when people talk about religion. So people don't guess I am and I don't tell them. (I don't talk about my disbelief in religion with anyone but close friends and family. My husband's very religious family who is lives in this area doesn't know, at least not from me, I've never discussed it with them). No decent medical care here, and the schools suck, but there are almost 50 churches (no joking) between me and a decently sized city. I consider this sad, honestly. People here use lots of euphemisms, and I use lots of clear and precise language. I sort of know the basics. I'm trying to be more conventionally polite and I even make eye contact with and nod to strangers (yeah this is quite a social engineering feat for an autistic and I'm pretty proud of my ability to make eye contact with strangers). People invite me to their churches and I thank them politely, I dont' scream "Eff that I'm an athiest"--- I think it sometimes though, haha. So. Any advice to a displaced autistic atheist from Manhattan to adjusting to the Bible Belt South?? Thanks in advance everyone, I appreciate it.



pasty
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18 Jan 2017, 3:25 pm

I have lived in the deep south my whole life, and I hate it. The best you can do to avoid a religious conflict is to avoid any conversation at all with people. Search online for places nearby (maybe in the next city) that are more likely to be religiously neutral. For instance, I don't grocery shop near churches. I would never eat lunch at a family restaurant. I don't shop in stores near the Christian book store. Find the closest Hot Topic and ask the kids in there (I know they're young, but they would know) where the religious people DON'T go, and hang out on that side of town. Or ask the nearest LGBTQ advocacy center. Most of the music stores and pet supply stores I've been in are religiously neutral. Most of the animal rescue friends I have don't ever discuss religion or judge people. Tattoo shops are safe places to go also. And anywhere with a lot of Science. If you can just avoid religious people altogether, you'll be fine.



Darmok
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18 Jan 2017, 3:54 pm

I am a New Englander who had to live in the South for a number of years. I didn't have any trouble with religious conflicts, but this was a major issue:

TEEDEE wrote:
People here use lots of euphemisms, and I use lots of clear and precise language.

I found that to be a significant source of conflict. My experience was that the more traditionally "Southern" someone was, the more indirect their language was -- and a Northerner's reading of that was that it was phony and manipulative. (I don't believe they saw it that way -- it's just a real cultural difference.)

One of the first examples I encountered was when eating at a restaurant with other people, and I still remember it vividly. If someone says, "Would you like the salt?" and you don't want it, you would think the polite answer would be "No thanks," wouldn't you? Well in fact, I later learned that "No thanks" was considered impolite, because what "Would you like the salt?" really means is "I would like the salt." Only people who are raised in a culture can understand that kind of linguistic misdirection. Good luck!


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pasty
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18 Jan 2017, 4:00 pm

Darmok wrote:
If someone says, "Would you like the salt?" and you don't want it, you would think the polite answer would be "No thanks," wouldn't you? Well in fact, I later learned that "No thanks" was considered impolite, because what "Would you like the salt?" really means is "I would like the salt."


I've never encountered this specific problem. I've only ever heard "could you please pass the salt?" and "are you done with the salt?" That problem must be specific to that person.



EclecticWarrior
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18 Jan 2017, 4:53 pm

Note how people talk, if it features religion prominently don't "come out" to them. If there are kids involved and the local schools teach Biblical creationism, you can "set them straight" at home. However, if they openly object in class that could be very problematic.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Jan 2017, 7:26 pm

I'm a New Yorker (Queens)

Are you moving to the Bible Belt for work?

Also: I thought Huntsville, Alabama was an oasis of progressive thinking within a larger regressive-thinking area.



TEEDEE
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18 Jan 2017, 8:30 pm

Thanks for the advice about avoiding the religious---I do that already but there are more religious people here. I've made a few friendly acquaintances at our new veterinarian's office and also at the dog groomer---I really got along with our dog groomer. LGBT support is a great idea. I'm in an area of the South famously hostile to transgender people ( I am not transgender) but two of my very dear friends from NYC are, and they feel some trepidation about visiting me here, and they are world travelers---they've been everywhere in the world pretty much but the American south worries them, sadly.Maybe I can get tips on how to keep them happy visiting here and comfortable. Three of my other very close friends are gay, one is male couple, just married, the other single. All three of them are not "straight acting" and are very comfortable being gay, all three are, like me atheist. In general, my friends are artists, musicians, gay, really really smart, scientists, transgender, or a combination thereof and I want them to feel welcome and comfortable visiting me. I'm not moving here for work( I used to work, but I don't have to work now) so this is really about social issues for me. There is no way I'm going to be friends with some phony "church lady" types (they're everywhere) and although I'm female (and mainly straight) 90% of my friends are male, I don't like most women. I appreciate everyone's advice so much, thank you all again :D



LongleafPine
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18 Jan 2017, 10:04 pm

A nice thing you'll find out over time is that even in your small town you will meet artists, atheists, progressives, and gay people. And you will really, really appreciate them! In my experience, talking about food, crafts, travel, home repairs, and/or sports provides enough common ground to get by socially. Being a quiet and consistent volunteer at a school, library, and/or community organization will allow you to coast along socially. Though it seems trivial, your clothing, hair, and makeup will be monitored closely, so staying mid-range, not flashy, not grubby, will be a big help. Being kind but fairly reserved is acceptable, but chatting a few minutes when you run into someone you know is standard and expected procedure. Good luck! (Internet news and good books help me tremendously to not feel isolated.)



pasty
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18 Jan 2017, 10:54 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I thought Huntsville, Alabama was an oasis of progressive thinking within a larger regressive-thinking area.


This is absolutely true, however:
Everything that is not ultra-conservative is considered progressive down here. It's no Portland or Seattle.
The oasis has open borders. People from other places work and shop here.

I had a coworker (from Jordan) who was spit on at a gas station and told to "go back home." That coworker worked hard for his PhD and his citizenship, and he's the CEO of a tech company and one of the most beautiful men I know. I get cat-called (and I assure you I'm not attractive). People pray out loud and make a big production out of it at restaurants. There are trucks everywhere. A man who doesn't spit and rape is "gay" and gay is supposedly bad. Men touch me without my permission and call it "chivalry." Democratic political signs are stolen from yards. Hybrid cars are "gay." We were recently on the news for having a cop beat an Indian man and cripple him because he "looked suspicious" to a white neighbor while he was going for a walk in his grandkids' neighborhood during a visit. We have lots of issues still, but it's the best city in the south in my opinion. We have a disproportionate amount of autistic people, atheists, independent voters, and vegetarians. We all know where to find each other.



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19 Jan 2017, 8:44 am

yikes, I can only imagine how out of place you feel not even as an athiest as I myself am christian but just as a NYer alone ... The south is weird like that, nuff said. Many of them are very butthurt. All I can say is try not to provoke the butthurted and do not engage with intellectually inferior people (:



TEEDEE
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19 Jan 2017, 9:30 am

LongleafPine wrote:
A nice thing you'll find out over time is that even in your small town you will meet artists, atheists, progressives, and gay people. And you will really, really appreciate them! In my experience, talking about food, crafts, travel, home repairs, and/or sports provides enough common ground to get by socially. Being a quiet and consistent volunteer at a school, library, and/or community organization will allow you to coast along socially. Though it seems trivial, your clothing, hair, and makeup will be monitored closely, so staying mid-range, not flashy, not grubby, will be a big help. Being kind but fairly reserved is acceptable, but chatting a few minutes when you run into someone you know is standard and expected procedure. Good luck! (Internet news and good books help me tremendously to not feel isolated.)

Thanks---everything you said here has proven true for me, I really like your analysis of the situation and I'd really like to hear more if you have more to say, lols :D I immediately tried to fit in with clothing and style and I've managed somewhat (without looking like I'm 110 years old-the women here dress in really frumpy clothes with outdated hair, I fit in, but I'll never look like that if I can avoid it.) I found a gay man at my hairdressers and requested him to do my hair-I'll get to do that soon. I've considered volunteering for something too. I have noticed that people here are more reserved in general and friendlier to acquaintances and I'm working on getting the cultural differences of that down also. I also want to set some goals for myself, since I have to live in the place I'd never have chosen on my own..some of those are to find things and people I do like while I plot a way to get out of here. Fortunately I have a few good friends and some family, not much, but they are really helpful even if they are far away in New York, mainly.



TEEDEE
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19 Jan 2017, 9:53 am

green0star wrote:
yikes, I can only imagine how out of place you feel not even as an athiest as I myself am christian but just as a NYer alone ... The south is weird like that, nuff said. Many of them are very butthurt. All I can say is try not to provoke the butthurted and do not engage with intellectually inferior people (:
I do feel even more out of place here than I usually do. I'm used to feeling out of place everywhere and I cope by trying to fade into the background where I am. There are things about me that make me an "outsider" and they've been there all my life--my autism, my atheism, my politics (I took a Pew Research's political poll and came up as "young outsider" oddly). I score in the top 3% when I take IQ tests (one administered by a psychologist got these results but I scored like this in school also) so my "intelligence" (define intelligence, right?) whatever that's worth, is not "normal" either. I agree not to argue with stupid people, I try to limit any debating to people who are as or more intelligent than I am (sometimes I have to guess at this. I love debating and I learn more when I lose than when I win) I've turned my nose up at MENSA since I was told by my English teacher in 8th grade (that was back in the 70's) that I should join.....but I'm wondering if I might do that here lols. There is a good college town about an hour's drive with lots of smart people. Might join a philosophy meetup there. I have met people who are butthurt about the North/South thing and somehow I manage to slide past that, but I have a tendency to see issues sincerely from both sides and I think that might help here? Thanks again for being so kind and helping I appreciate it.



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21 Jan 2017, 8:57 am

I moved to a multiple-church town of 1,000 ten years ago, and have not made any new friends. I finally had one nice old couple over for dinner recently, and was very glad that I was inspired to ask "Would you like to say a blessing?" after serving the food. Now they expect their god to be on my side, thanks to their requests. It's a bit like when you let somebody ramble on about themselves for an hour, and then they feel closer to you.



kraftiekortie
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21 Jan 2017, 9:43 am

How you would adjust would depend upon the nature of the location within the Bible Belt.



SaveFerris
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21 Jan 2017, 9:45 am

pasty wrote:
Darmok wrote:
If someone says, "Would you like the salt?" and you don't want it, you would think the polite answer would be "No thanks," wouldn't you? Well in fact, I later learned that "No thanks" was considered impolite, because what "Would you like the salt?" really means is "I would like the salt."


I've never encountered this specific problem. I've only ever heard "could you please pass the salt?" and "are you done with the salt?" That problem must be specific to that person.


Yep , have to agree , that is some strange logic right there.


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wbport
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22 Jan 2017, 10:45 pm

First, you might want to consider that there might be quite a few churches that are really right about the afterlife and who to worship now while you are alive.

If you refuse to accept that the Bible is inerrant, don't worry there is a lot of company. The scriptures were copied many times by people who sometimes make mistakes. If one book of the Bible says a certain king started his reign when he was 25 years old and another one says he was 19, so what?

Don't overthink it.