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Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 3:23 pm

Doesn't make it not true, just take the L and stop repeating this ridiculous big lie. Democrats will NEVER regain power in this country if they themselves cannot look in the mirror.

Did you even read the article or do you just look at headlines? Trump's "business dealings" with Russia have long been known which was $12M for hosting Ms. Universe in Moscow and then when he sold a mansion in Florida to somebody that HAPPENED to be Russian.

You are worse than birther or 9/11 truthers, totally delusional and have no idea what you are even accusing people of. No facts, no nothing except crybaby tears. At least those conspiracies were semi-coherent in their implications, do you seriously believe that Trump won because he's some sort of Manchurian Candidate for Russia? Really? If you do you're straight up an idiot, I'm sorry. Stop letting your hatred of the man cloud your judgement and sanity. The conspiracy is what, Russia gave him money so he could fund his campaign on shoe string budget against $2B+ campaign against him with a compromised press acting under the orders of the DNC? Don't make a lot of logical sense does it?



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14 May 2017, 5:26 pm

Jacoby wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Again, you mostly lay your preconceptions on your imaginary opponents. I ask what evidence you will accept, and you only reply that you need some unspecified evidence that goes to a different charge. No one is saying vote counts were altered, okay?

Rex Tillerson said today that Russia interfered in our election. Does that indicate the existence of sufficient evidence that Russia interfered in our election or not?


The current 'charge' is nonsensical, a vague insinuation about unknown unknowns. A witchhunt. There has never been any evidence presented, nothing has been clarified, it's only anti-Russian hysteria from booty blasted Democrats and Neocon psychos. What do you think Russia actually did? It's such a pathetic loser excuse.

My charge (since you fail to specify literally anything in response to my simple questions) is that there is a cover up. Something illegal, unethical, deceptive, or embarrassing happened between the Trump campaign and Russia, and they are lying to cover it up. Obviously, there is a cover up. I suspect active coordination between Russia and people directly employed or authorized by the campaign, but my only charges consist of what people have repeatedly admitted. Admitted, that is, after trying to cover it up.


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Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 5:36 pm

You are making wild leaps to conclusions based on nothing, your argument boils down to it boils down to 'unknown unknowns' and since you hate Trump so much he has to be guilty in your mind. Relations with Russia still not illegal.



jrjones9933
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14 May 2017, 5:37 pm

Not in any reasonable sense. I simply expect more of what we've already seen, and worse.


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Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 5:41 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Not in any reasonable sense. I simply expect more of what we've already seen, and worse.



You hope there is more, it's wishful thinking. Find something actually illegal or even concerning, I laid out what I think would be significant enough to match the rhetoric the Democrats are using right now but I'm not counting on that being proven since its laughable to even suggest.



jrjones9933
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14 May 2017, 5:53 pm

Well, lying under oath about political activities seems pretty serious to me. That has happened. If more of those lies pile up, it would get serious enough to turn the House over to the Democrats. Only at that point can I take the idea of impeachment seriously.

I thought it would be funnier, watching the strongman's slavish followers tire of doing backflips to believe his lies. Instead, I just see more viciousness toward others as the cognitive dissonance piles up.


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Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 8:03 pm

James Clapper lied under oath about bulk surveillance of US citizens, Bill Clinton had that one lie too, Hillary lied about sending and receiving classified material, all this Russia stuff is feigned outrage because Hillary lost. Do you really think we're even talking about Russia if Hillary won? It's a total excuse came up after the fact, their minds are searching for any rationalization that excuses their loss besides their own incompetence and how out of touch they are with the middle of America.



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14 May 2017, 8:05 pm

I'm not a follower of Trump. I just see the accusations of him in collusion with Russia being insubstantial. Nobody has yet produced anything of substance in months of investigating.

The saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is an axiom that most liberals under most circumstances would adhere to. But not in this case.

Not only is there a lack of extraordinary evidence, there's no tangible evidence whatsoever. Liberals are going on pure emotion and basically superstition regarding this matter.



jrjones9933
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14 May 2017, 8:31 pm

Jacoby wrote:
James Clapper lied under oath about bulk surveillance of US citizens, Bill Clinton had that one lie too, Hillary lied about sending and receiving classified material, all this Russia stuff is feigned outrage because Hillary lost. Do you really think we're even talking about Russia if Hillary won? It's a total excuse came up after the fact, their minds are searching for any rationalization that excuses their loss besides their own incompetence and how out of touch they are with the middle of America.

For my part, I'm on record here about human rights abuses in Putin's Russia for some time. And yes, I'd still talk about them. Even so, you have only repeated a list of charges which amounts to beating a pile of dead horses. Except the Clapper thing, I'd still favor prosecuting him.

This latest pile of lies about DJT's tax returns just indicated he has not learned the first rule of getting out of a hole.


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jrjones9933
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14 May 2017, 8:39 pm

EzraS wrote:
I'm not a follower of Trump. I just see the accusations of him in collusion with Russia being insubstantial. Nobody has yet produced anything of substance in months of investigating.

The saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is an axiom that most liberals under most circumstances would adhere to. But not in this case.

Not only is there a lack of extraordinary evidence, there's no tangible evidence whatsoever. Liberals are going on pure emotion and basically superstition regarding this matter.

Except for a couple of extreme voices, everyone here just seems to want an investigation, even if led by people we dislike and distrust. Both congressional committees have problems, as did Clapper, but no one seemed to doubt his ability to investigate stuff. The negative assessment of his political sense as pertains to leading the agency has merit in everyone's opinion, as far as I know, but he has great credibility as an investigator.

Constantly changing statements, changing justifications for firings, and threats all raise my suspicions. Ask anyone who has ever investigated anything.


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Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 8:39 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
James Clapper lied under oath about bulk surveillance of US citizens, Bill Clinton had that one lie too, Hillary lied about sending and receiving classified material, all this Russia stuff is feigned outrage because Hillary lost. Do you really think we're even talking about Russia if Hillary won? It's a total excuse came up after the fact, their minds are searching for any rationalization that excuses their loss besides their own incompetence and how out of touch they are with the middle of America.

For my part, I'm on record here about human rights abuses in Putin's Russia for some time. And yes, I'd still talk about them. Even so, you have only repeated a list of charges which amounts to beating a pile of dead horses. Except the Clapper thing, I'd still favor prosecuting him.

This latest pile of lies about DJT's tax returns just indicated he has not learned the first rule of getting out of a hole.


Guess who is making the media rounds right now to trash Trump? James Clapper.

Obama created a big brother survaillence state, spied on our allies abroad and his political opponents at home and there is evidence they acted maliciously with this information as seen by the take down of General Flynn. These criminals are all covering each other's asses, the swamp don't go peacefully into the night.



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14 May 2017, 8:43 pm

You do read the tweets from DJT which make the news? He just tweeted about having recording equipment in the WH. Also, we've been over my continued opposition to the national security state before.

Do you think DJT asked Comey to swear loyalty? It seems credible to me, but also an excellent smear. I give it 60% plausibility atm.

Edit: meant Comey, not Clapper
Ironically, Clapper going around and attacking Trump is great cover for him, even as it baits Trump to ask for someone to prosecute him for something (rid me of this priest). That would definitely cross the line into criminality, and then Clapper would win in the long run by never having to worry about prosecution, at least as long as he doesn't vacation in Spain or something.


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Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 8:59 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
You do read the tweets from DJT which make the news? He just tweeted about having recording equipment in the WH. Also, we've been over my continued opposition to the national security state before.

Do you think DJT asked Clapper to swear loyalty? It seems credible to me, but also an excellent smear. I give it 60% plausibility atm.



You read too much into tweets. One, they didn't have dinner at the White House and two, if Trump recorded that conversation then I sincerely doubt he demanded Comey swear loyalty. If you're in the White House then you probably should expect to be recorded, bug sweeps were a part of the reason why Trump has spent so much time outside the White House. Rex Tillerson cleaned out whole floors at the state department looking for bugs. Perhaps Comey, not thinking he was being recorded, got a little cocky and let his agenda slip. I don't think Trump would demand loyalty from Comey because I don't think he ever trusted the guy to begin with, I believe he's been playing chicken with Trump with this Russia BS to stop from having a real inquiry into the Obama administration and the Clinton's of which there is far more evidence against.

If you oppose the national security state then how can you rectify it with supporting Obama and Hillary?



Jacoby
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14 May 2017, 9:12 pm

Image

TWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPS DOLND BRUMPTF ? TWO SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS??????????????



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14 May 2017, 11:23 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
I'm not a follower of Trump. I just see the accusations of him in collusion with Russia being insubstantial. Nobody has yet produced anything of substance in months of investigating.

The saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is an axiom that most liberals under most circumstances would adhere to. But not in this case.

Not only is there a lack of extraordinary evidence, there's no tangible evidence whatsoever. Liberals are going on pure emotion and basically superstition regarding this matter.

Except for a couple of extreme voices, everyone here just seems to want an investigation, even if led by people we dislike and distrust. Both congressional committees have problems, as did Clapper, but no one seemed to doubt his ability to investigate stuff. The negative assessment of his political sense as pertains to leading the agency has merit in everyone's opinion, as far as I know, but he has great credibility as an investigator.

Constantly changing statements, changing justifications for firings, and threats all raise my suspicions. Ask anyone who has ever investigated anything.


There's been tons of suspicion and conjecture and conclusions. But none of that is in any way a form of evidence.

What a lot of bystanders seem to be going on is faith. Faith in the intelligence community's blanket statements and double talk seems to be all they have to go by.

But I think all of that is irrelevant in that liberals are desperate in trying to get rid of Trump no matter what. I figure that eventually they'll finally go into acceptance mode and simmer down.



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15 May 2017, 1:46 am

Jacoby wrote:
One, they didn't have dinner at the White House

Trump said they did.