Is ABA Behaviour Interventionist a good job for an aspie?

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Tross
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17 Feb 2017, 3:27 am

So I graduated in June of this past year and after several months I finally got an interview and just found out tonight that I got the job, which I'm super stoked about. It probably didn't help that not only is a BA of sociology one of those BS degrees that doesn't have a specific use, but I've always been really indecisive about what I want to do for a living even well before graduating, and sociology just happened to be a subject I enjoyed and was good at and to make things worse I changed my major a few years into post-secondary, which I didn't start till I was 20 because I took two years off after high school to work jobs I didn't care for. Long story short, I'm almost 29 and am still living at home, and finally have a chance at a decently paying part-time job that could lead to full time employment.

It just so happens that I volunteer with kids at my church and that sort of led me in the direction of pursuing child and youth work, and I've been trying to get into that field without having to go back to school as I'm already bloody sick of it. Well, it looks like I finally got my wish and will be working with kids on the spectrum, which is one of few circumstances where being an aspie might give me a leg up as I can't say I didn't need a little extra help when I was younger and kind of know what it's like to be the only one of my friends who needed it. I'm just a little uncertain about what this job entails, though I suppose the mandatory training seminar will help clear some stuff up.

I don't care if being male really helped distinguish me from other applicants as I really want a decent paying job and don't want to spend the rest of my life standing behind a cash register. The only concern is that I'll have to do a lot more driving and will need to have my car insured for business use, and shifts might be a even more sporadic than my dead-end retail job. But, maybe I'm just nervous about trying my hand at a new industry, and I am actually pretty excited. Is anyone familiar with this particular line of work? If so, do you have any advice? Maybe it's a little ironic that the part of me I've been ignoring and trying to bury in the hopes of living a reasonably neurotypical life is now the basis for a job that may be my ticket to moving out and living on my own.



MathGirl
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18 Feb 2017, 1:49 pm

I have been working as an ABA instructor therapist, with varying full-time and part-time schedules, since last April now. I am also acquiring supervision hours toward BCBA certification. I do not know if you are going into the intensive intervention field or something that is more low-key, but doing intensive programming is a very energy-consuming job for anyone. You have to be "on" and tuned into the behaviour of the kid all the time, plus be super organized and fluent at running the teaching trials. I am doing a graduate ABA program, as well, which helps a lot with proficiency in the theoretical/scientific side of things.

You have to have the right personality for it. I am more on the extroverted side and can be flexible with practice. I also have an artsy/creative side to me which really helps with engaging the kids. There is a lot of structure to the sessions, but building rapport with the kid and being able to be spontaneous is also very important. Aside from speed and organization challenges, my biggest struggle in this role is trying to go with my emotion more than relying on logic/rules. I also find that I need a lot of downtime, adequate rest and high general energy levels, and a very structured/predictable personal life to be able to do this job well.

Given that I have a lot of strengths in this role and given that I really do enjoy this work, I stick to it and refuse to give up despite these obstacles. I am actually going as far as trying to find a professional in the field who is familiar with adult ASD and who I do not directly work with to get some extra practice in the areas I have difficulty with. Another thing is that you need to be a really good communicator because you would typically be working as part of a team (unless you work alone in someone's home). This is another area I personally need guidance/coaching in if I want to be truly successful at this.

That's been my experience in a nutshell :)


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Tross
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20 Feb 2017, 1:41 am

MathGirl wrote:
I have been working as an ABA instructor therapist, with varying full-time and part-time schedules, since last April now. I am also acquiring supervision hours toward BCBA certification. I do not know if you are going into the intensive intervention field or something that is more low-key, but doing intensive programming is a very energy-consuming job for anyone. You have to be "on" and tuned into the behaviour of the kid all the time, plus be super organized and fluent at running the teaching trials. I am doing a graduate ABA program, as well, which helps a lot with proficiency in the theoretical/scientific side of things.

You have to have the right personality for it. I am more on the extroverted side and can be flexible with practice. I also have an artsy/creative side to me which really helps with engaging the kids. There is a lot of structure to the sessions, but building rapport with the kid and being able to be spontaneous is also very important. Aside from speed and organization challenges, my biggest struggle in this role is trying to go with my emotion more than relying on logic/rules. I also find that I need a lot of downtime, adequate rest and high general energy levels, and a very structured/predictable personal life to be able to do this job well.

Given that I have a lot of strengths in this role and given that I really do enjoy this work, I stick to it and refuse to give up despite these obstacles. I am actually going as far as trying to find a professional in the field who is familiar with adult ASD and who I do not directly work with to get some extra practice in the areas I have difficulty with. Another thing is that you need to be a really good communicator because you would typically be working as part of a team (unless you work alone in someone's home). This is another area I personally need guidance/coaching in if I want to be truly successful at this.

That's been my experience in a nutshell :)
Thanks for the response. I guess I'll know whether I'm cut out for this line of work when I finally start. I'm looking forward to it though.



MathGirl
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20 Feb 2017, 11:14 am

Tross wrote:
Thanks for the response. I guess I'll know whether I'm cut out for this line of work when I finally start. I'm looking forward to it though.
Sounds like a plan. I would actually be really interested in how it goes for you.

There is research out there on using behaviour skills training to train adults with ASD to implement behaviour interventions for children with ASD. The results are very promising overall, but areas of weakness that are similar to what I have described have been mentioned over and over again. I think it might depend on the workplace as to how much of these deviations from the role expectation are accepted.


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Tross
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22 Feb 2017, 2:08 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Tross wrote:
Thanks for the response. I guess I'll know whether I'm cut out for this line of work when I finally start. I'm looking forward to it though.
Sounds like a plan. I would actually be really interested in how it goes for you.

There is research out there on using behaviour skills training to train adults with ASD to implement behaviour interventions for children with ASD. The results are very promising overall, but areas of weakness that are similar to what I have described have been mentioned over and over again. I think it might depend on the workplace as to how much of these deviations from the role expectation are accepted.
Well, after attending both days of the training seminar I can say that this job looks pretty challenging, but I also have the least amount of experience in this field out of all the people hired in this last wave, and apparently there will be enough support at first to ease me into the job. I'm sure it's something I'll gradually get better at, but I might have trouble remembering all the forms to fill out and what each procedure is at first. I suppose every job has a lot to absorb at first, mind you. Maybe it won't be a problem at all. Hopefully I'll be placed soon so I can start.



MathGirl
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23 Feb 2017, 7:38 pm

Tross wrote:
Well, after attending both days of the training seminar I can say that this job looks pretty challenging, but I also have the least amount of experience in this field out of all the people hired in this last wave, and apparently there will be enough support at first to ease me into the job. I'm sure it's something I'll gradually get better at, but I might have trouble remembering all the forms to fill out and what each procedure is at first. I suppose every job has a lot to absorb at first, mind you. Maybe it won't be a problem at all. Hopefully I'll be placed soon so I can start.
Yeah, it really takes months upon months of experience to become really good at this job. I found that doing it full-time, I become comfortable with it relatively quickly, but it is challenging to do part-time.

No pressure, but I would love to hear what you think of this job in a few weeks once you start. I have not met anyone else on the spectrum who has done this (and particularly someone who has done this well/felt comfortable with it), so I would be extremely interested to learn about another person's experience.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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25 Feb 2017, 3:57 pm

At a university presentation, I asked about sensory issues. The ABA instructor said, some children on the spectrum have sensory issues, and some don't, which is true as far as it goes. It is also the case that spectrum kids have sensory issues much more often than do members of the general public, and it's something which would be extremely helpful to be conversant and informed about.

In the training film they show, the instructor said, "Great job, Give me five!" and she loomed her face close to the child's face. Wow, it seemed like it would be too much even for someone without sensory issues!

Got me thinking, yes, it's important for the rewards to actually be rewarding. :D



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25 Feb 2017, 4:30 pm

as far as energy and downtime, I've been helped by the idea of developing a solid, steady eddie B game along with my A game skills.

I took this analogy from something I read about Major League Baseball pitchers. A young pitcher typically can only win when he has his A game on. A veteran has figured out ways to also win with his B game.



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28 Feb 2017, 11:17 am

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
as far as energy and downtime, I've been helped by the idea of developing a solid, steady eddie B game along with my A game skills.

I took this analogy from something I read about Major League Baseball pitchers. A young pitcher typically can only win when he has his A game on. A veteran has figured out ways to also win with his B game.
What do you mean by B game? I've always been confused by baseball so I'm the worst person to use this analogy with. :P


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kraftiekortie
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28 Feb 2017, 11:24 am

"B"-game, in this instance, has nothing to do with baseball.

Sometimes, on a day-to-day basis, people are just not as efficient on one day as during another day.

Therefore, they have to acknowledge this. They have to be good at implementing and using a "B"-game to obtain results, rather than their "A"-game, because they don't have their "A"-game that day. They are not in an ideal mood or as efficient as days when they can use their "A"-game.



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01 Mar 2017, 10:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
"B"-game, in this instance, has nothing to do with baseball.

Sometimes, on a day-to-day basis, people are just not as efficient on one day as during another day.

Therefore, they have to acknowledge this. They have to be good at implementing and using a "B"-game to obtain results, rather than their "A"-game, because they don't have their "A"-game that day. They are not in an ideal mood or as efficient as days when they can use their "A"-game.
Thank you for the explanation, kraftiekortie. No idea why I haven't heard this before. :oops:

You kind of have to be on all the time with the kids but there are some ways you can go more low-key on off days. You still have to perform at a very high level at least some of the time, though.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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03 Mar 2017, 6:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
"B"-game, in this instance, has nothing to do with baseball.

Sometimes, on a day-to-day basis, people are just not as efficient on one day as during another day.

Therefore, they have to acknowledge this. They have to be good at implementing and using a "B"-game to obtain results, rather than their "A"-game, because they don't have their "A"-game that day. They are not in an ideal mood or as efficient as days when they can use their "A"-game.
I generally agree with this. I'd only add that sometimes a low-key approach is more effective than when a person is laser-beaming in on one particular area.

The lower-key approach might be more effective because you're also open to what else is going on in the broader context.



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03 Mar 2017, 6:47 pm

MathGirl wrote:
You kind of have to be on all the time with the kids but there are some ways you can go more low-key on off days. You still have to perform at a very high level at least some of the time, though.
I'll tell you, the film they showed at the local university which was supposed to be the crème of the crème and supposed to be exactly how to do ABA.

"Hi, I'm Carol"

"Hi, Steven"

"GREAT JOB!! ! GIVE ME FIVE!! !"

And the adult teacher Carol loomed right in the child's face with a huge smile on her (Carol's) face. It was just too much. And then being expected to slap hands with the adult.

And then, even if you're successful, you get a child who introduces himself as well as a professional insurcance sales person ? ?



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04 Mar 2017, 1:02 pm

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
MathGirl wrote:
You kind of have to be on all the time with the kids but there are some ways you can go more low-key on off days. You still have to perform at a very high level at least some of the time, though.
I'll tell you, the film they showed at the local university which was supposed to be the crème of the crème and supposed to be exactly how to do ABA.

"Hi, I'm Carol"

"Hi, Steven"

"GREAT JOB!! ! GIVE ME FIVE!! !"

And the adult teacher Carol loomed right in the child's face with a huge smile on her (Carol's) face. It was just too much. And then being expected to slap hands with the adult.

And then, even if you're successful, you get a child who introduces himself as well as a professional insurcance sales person ? ?
I really couldn't help but laugh at this (perhaps because it was intended to be written with an exaggerated tone?).

The social praise becomes "pleasurable"/reinforcing because it becomes paired (repeatedly presented to become a conditioned reinforcer) with other preferred things. The reason for the enthusiasm is to make it particularly salient as a distinct reinforcer compared to other types of interaction (and, I'm sure, to also sort of "break through" the child's bubble). To me, as a behaviourist, the fundamental fallacy many people commit is thinking that something is "aversive" or "bad" because it doesn't feel right to them and/or because they are inherently "wired" in a way that makes these things aversive/bad.

There are some things that are absolutely non-reinforcing to me and any pairing that has ever happened has had non-lasting effects. They are more general things, like certain types of conversation. But if something like praise can be paired as a reinforcer and is effective/makes things much easier treatment progress-wise, then why not.

I will leave it at that. I know my views are controversial and I don't want to get caught up in a debate. Working 10-12 hours/day 7 days a week is already causing me enough stress.


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04 Mar 2017, 3:02 pm

MathGirl wrote:
(perhaps because it was intended to be written with an exaggerated tone?).

No, the exaggerated tone was in the actual video. The person doing the ABA was game on.

Really, it was like an actor overacting. Well, she was a grad student. She's not a professional actor.



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04 Mar 2017, 3:54 pm

MathGirl wrote:
to also sort of "break through" the child's bubble

That's a very powerful weapon indeed. It's a very powerful idea.

This has led to the Lovaas 'method' of beating kids on their sides, and everything else. And really, the autistic person is just there. There's no second person hiding inside them. Just a person with various intense interests and various ability or not in talking.

Temple Grandin said that with a seasoned, experience speech therapist, sometimes you can pull the child out, but you've got to be careful, sometimes you just push the child further in.

===========

I like the method, play to strength. For example, I'd read that learning sign language has positive transfer if and when talking comes.

I think a lot of autism professionals view stimming as both a symptom and part of the problem. I view stimming, yes as one symptom of autism, but then as part of the solution. I mean, poker players, baseball players, and a bunch of other people stim. A high school student bouncing their knee during an algebra test is engaging in stimming.

I'm all in favor of the distinction between public and private stimming. Perhaps teachers, autism coaches and others could help model lower-key stimming for use in public. In the same speech, Temple Grandin said she was not allowed to stim at the table during lunch, but she was allowed to stim during rest period after lunch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEAhMEgGOQ