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Regeniversity
Blue Jay
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12 Feb 2018, 10:07 pm

I don't think I understand your first sentence. Who is the person you are referring to?

The only freedom is emptiness. Even if there is not determinism (which does not necessitate a divine mind), it doesn't mean there is free will, it just means there is randomness. Will requires influential context and cannot be free. I don't know why anyone would even want it to be free anyway, that wouldn't make any sense.

This is not depressing to me because even though I know change doesn't come from within me, I know that things do change and I would rather be part of an environment than some independent entity creating its own irrelevant will out of nothing.
The specifics of human existence in the narrative structure of reality that I experience are what is depressing.

Life is certainly a burden, as it should be.. Though it could acceptably be a burden, I cannot see it acceptably being a burden without a fulfillment that comes from the carrying of that weight.
Life is not fulfilling to me, regardless of its ease or difficulty.

I personally don't really feel like I struggle to understand intimacy that much, I just think because I do not know anyone who I admire or look up to - or anyone who I think it makes sense to be vulnerable with and grow with - I cannot find intimacy with others again. Most people are really not that appealing to me anyway.
That said, the only thing that I want to live for is emotional intimacy.

that's ridiculous at this point though. I've tried extremely hard despite constantly feeling like I shouldn't to find people to form meaningful connections and collaborative partnerships with. but there is no one in my life who really matters to me. everyone is just who they are and they're irrelevant to where I'm going. and where I'm going needs other people but I can only see it empty because where are the other people?

how can I form a real connection with anyone when most of the people I encounter seem like idiots to me and anyone who is intriguing enough for me to want to know more about doesn't seem to want anything to do with me (which I can't blame them for since I am incompatible with contemporary economics and therefore probably have no future of any kind)?

as if it even matters :P

good luck with the strong bottle horns of thick thoup



DataB4
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01 Mar 2018, 9:37 pm

Hi Regeniversity,

I've been thinking about what to say. I don't like to leave people hanging. You've been expressing creativity and impactful deep thoughts here. I'm sorry you're still struggling so much to find emotional intimacy and life purpose.



Regeniversity
Blue Jay
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04 Mar 2018, 11:19 am

I think that there is often not a lot to say in response to the things I say, especially because I have such a distinct tendency to argue against at least some part of everything anyone says or pick things apart to a degree that makes other people want me GONE. but uh. yeah. there is not really much to say. still stuck here. 2 months away from finding out if I will continue to exist or not haha



blooiejagwa
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04 Mar 2018, 12:38 pm

Regeniversity wrote:
DataB4 wrote:
I think you may need to ask someone who speaks to you directly, especially if they speak to you in person, to tell you what's going on.

I try quite regularly to ask people about specific instances of the general trend I meant to describe in this post. Usually people either get offended that I am questioning things at all or there is no clear answer and the discussion becomes about semantics which the other person thinks is irrelevant and then gives up on quickly, resorting to frustration and accusing me of going in loops. When I ask about why it feels I am going in loops people usually just get more frustrated and don't actually tell me. At that point I generally resort to temporary abandonment of what I had hoped to understand in order to keep from burning bridges entirely, because there is no one in my life I am remotely close to on an emotional level (there was one person in my life I felt emotionally close to as far as I remember - I don't remember much about early childhood - but they became frustrated with me quickly too and gave up and now they don't wish to interact with me anymore) and even distant feeling social interaction is better than never talking to anyone.

Quote:
Who do you want to believe, yourself or the other person? Does it really matter?

I prefer not to maintain my perspective based on what I want to believe.

Quote:
Do you take a vote or a consensus to find the truth?

Truth is an interesting and sort of messed up multi-concept. I would say that in social practice, truth is simply opinions and their expression. I try to pay attention closely to as wide a variety of perspectives as I can and then continually update the justification for which I think certain things based on what seems to make the most sense to me at any given time. I find that talking to others is extremely helpful for me when it comes to the exploration of justification and perspectives, but most of the time people seem to find intense discussion annoying to the point of being nearly intolerable. I don't feel that I would know how to operate without consistently trying to contribute to as intense of a discussion as I can, unless the goal of the situation is simply to enjoy another's company in which case I usually don't have a lot to say. I certainly see the value of silence and being with someone without constantly investigating the world through perceptual negotiation, but the latter seems much much more important to me if the general direction I want to move is growth and contribution to the improvement of biological systems (and the social and economic systems tended to by them) on Earth. I have yet to find anyone who wants to discuss things with me who I want to discuss things with on a regular basis and who also wants to be still with me in some moments and just feel each others' presence.

I feel very satisfied with my mode of operation when it comes to myself, but it seems to cut me off entirely from being intimate (emotionally or physically) with other people. That being said about emotional or physical intimacy, I would certainly consider myself demisexual so, even though I think I would not have much trouble finding meaningless sex since people seem to find me physically and temperamentally attractive, physical intimacy feels worse to me than physical isolation when it is not founded on emotional intimacy.


I think I got a bit off topic but rambling seems to me like a pretty good way to look more closely at the perspectives I am already exploring internally.

I appreciate both of your responses and I hope that my response to your responses will feel adequate.



Dear OP i experience this very often. I’m glad you articulated it so clearly as I wouldn’t be able to. I experienced it today. When will our spaceship come and ‘beam us up’ and fly us to our correct planet? Slightly joking


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DataB4
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04 Mar 2018, 10:40 pm

Regeniversity, people have told me that I pick apart what they say too. In my case, I've found that awareness helps a lot. If I get too technical and pull stuff apart too much, people feel like I’m not hearing and understanding them, so I try to be aware of it. Especially if they are talking about something emotional, or they’re really passionate about something, I try to keep their feelings in mind or ask how they feel. That helps me not to drive them so crazy.

You say you're two months away, I take that to mean a health condition or test of some sort. I wish you the best in whatever you're going through in your life.



Regeniversity
Blue Jay
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09 Mar 2018, 11:24 am

If I can find the right 4runner before May then I'm just going to use that and colonize my own planet (assuming I pass the wilderness test)

I think I am pretty good with keeping space for other people's emotions in most situations. but these days there isn't really even much of an opportunity to do that because the only people I ever interact with are people I've known for years and they are accustomed to how I am and are fine with it. They know that I care in whatever way I am able.
But none of those are people I have a future with, seeing as I am going to leave civilization and attempt to survive without any money for the rest of my life (with a two year transition period living out of a vehicle and WWOOFing around north america - if I can find one in the next two months that I can afford and is worth buying, which seems a bit unlikely)

There aren't new people anymore who become part of my life in any way other than just some person that I encountered who I have never had an in depth interaction with.

I hate communicating with people online but that is really the only thing I can do most of the time unless I'm just sitting around getting high with people and doing nothing productive.

I need someone in my life who could potentially be part of my future or all of this will be for nothing.

but I really don't know how I'm going to find a 96-02 toyota 4runner sr5 4x4 with the 3.4L v6, with less than 200,000 miles on it, in good condition, with a fully intact frame, being sold in the rust belt near lake erie, before May, for $3500 or less....
or an equivalently effective vehicle which I have yet to find (I mean a nissan xterra I'd consider for sure too but the 4runner seems more appropriate for living in)

if I can't do that, I don't really know what else I can do because there is no way I'm going to allow myself to stay alive if I'm still in this house after this spring



AngryAngryAngry
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19 Mar 2018, 2:25 am

I have to totally agree - many people see the world in a vastly different way (especially to a logical ASD person).

Think of chinese whispers - people can't even listen & pass on a simple message correctly!!

And for that reason they will misinterpret your body language (even though you might not be "actively" using ANY!
They will misinterpret something you say "reading between the lines".
Heck they can even misinterpret something you say solely based on the tone of your voice!! !! Or perhaps their own emotional state - dealting with NT's is Drama, it's fraught with difficulty. Watch a soap opera - always conflicts and in fighting - this happens frequently among NT friendships.

So don't be too hard on yourself.

Some tools that you can use - tell people early on that you are a straight talker - you don't use insinuation, if you say "it's black" THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN! They will respect you for that.
Also you're quite a logical person, now here is a challenge for you, when you say something to someone else you need to say it in a way that CANNOT be interpreted in any other way! Sometimes you may need to paraphrase:
"it's black" "I don't mean grey"

I've written board game instructions, and thought they were extremely clear and succinct - but no, people can find all sorts of ways to reinterpret the rules. It's a real test of your logical powers to express something clearly to another person. Best of luck, I'm sure you're up to the challenge. :mrgreen:



blooiejagwa
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19 Mar 2018, 9:04 am

Well said AngryAngryAngry

Been dealing with this the past couple of weeks

I realized NTs can even (based on their emotions and projecting, as well as power dynamics) misinterpret you before u enter the room and thereby interpret all behaviour in that light. They then exclude anything u say or did that does not fit into their conception which is in itself flawed

Then they are too arrogant to admit it!! When confronted with the truth and they lie to make their version fit what suits them best

Hate them


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Regeniversity
Blue Jay
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20 Mar 2018, 12:58 pm

Unfortunately, there are not things that can be said so that there can be no misinterpretation. The very fabric of reality is made of associative context.

What bothers me more than miscommunication with words is miscommunication with energy. The worst part though, is the fact that intentions don't mean s**t and therefore I cannot be trusted to successfully express my values through behavior even if I think that is what I'm doing.

I guess I would probably group body language and energetic communication together because they both seem largely unconscious compared to verbal communication.

I almost never get far enough in person to say something like "just so you know, I have trouble interpreting social cues and predicting emotional responses but feel free to let me know if I'm doing something that bothers you and please describe in as much detail you're able" which would almost certainly be seen as verbose and too boring to even pay attention to all the way to the end.

It seems to me that a great many people do not think seriously about semantics at all during their lives and, for this reason, know little about themselves or the story they are acting out with the world around them - apart from the indicators presented by civilization that we have been trained to recognize (career, friends, family hobbies, guilty pleasures, etc., bottled up and presented as chunks of a whole life with almost no focus on values and what they are.. like people don't f*****g ask "what does it mean to value something? how does this arise?")..

people don't seem to ask much at all except "can I have this?" "Can I do that?" "what is the fastest way between preset A and preset B, summarized so that I don't have to think about it?"

At this point it's really hard to even want anyone around me. I don't remember what it is like to admire someone or look up to them. Everyone seems like an idiot to me and I hate myself for that.

Life is perpetual fear and shame culminating in cowardice and isolation. but there is no escape :) there is no escape at all till death comes from wherever it has to come from! and even then, it is only a slightly less-bad alternative to this particular reality.

talk to you later more-people-I-cannot-feel-the-presence-of! yes, if you exist, that means you!
Isn't that offensive? It seems like it could be. silly thing, that would be. but I wouldn't be surprised.

(reposted to edit because I couldn't find the edit option but maybe I didn't care enough to see it and it's really obvious) edit again: nevermind I see now that the edit option is there on new posts but not ones that are a certain age