Concerned by groupthink in Sociology
13 Mar 2017, 2:35 am
So this year I am doing Sociology. The teacher who is Jamaican English and came from working class origins is incredibly liberal and socialist orientated. He is a nice smart, insightful guy who likes discussion but that is besides the point. Recently he said fox news was propaganda, that Hillary was likely a corporatist etc., and showed us allot of the Young Turks videos to make points about how the rich avoid justice.
Whilst I do like the fact he is making us see the world in a different light. I am a little concerned over one thing, Sociology only illustrates one side. For someone who is undecided on their political affiliation and may be doing sociology this can be particularly bad, it makes someone decide too early without gaining the full picture. This has even impacted me, I briefly founded myself supporting more socialist policies that I typically wouldn't of.
In addition I am worried about a groupthink environment being created. The current teacher we have is the type of person who is charismatic(Rated as NZ's most inspirational teacher of the year) and I can see having a big effect on the people he teaches. He has made it seem really cool to be seen as advocating for social justice and I can see many students in the class adopting that same mantra to fit in. Is this a bad thing?
13 Mar 2017, 2:44 am
Yes it is a bad thing, because it leaves students ignorant of alternative views and explanations.
Sociology is notoriously leftist:
https://www.google.com/search?q=leftist ... +sociology
I seem to recall a survey of academics in the US that found the ratio of Democrats to Republicans in the field was something like 40:1.
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13 Mar 2017, 2:59 am
That may very well be the case.
My previous history teacher I just discovered was a libertarian. Whilst he was teaching is he was objective. I think too objective even about the issues, he rarely offered his viewpoint in class discussions, just merely stated facts and the different viewpoints. I am beginning to wonder whether a reason for why that is the case, is because of some hidden social code, he wasn't meant to encroach on. Effectively he might annoy people and parents if he is out their sprouting his conservative views on a liberal class.
I could be wrong, but it certainly seems more left wing teachers are willing to sprout their viewpoints and more right wing teachers are not, almost keeping their views hidden. It was probably just his personality but the fact he did it always seemed a bit odd. I would ask him what he thought of libertarian viewpoints and politics and never once was he open about his affiliation, it seems odd.
13 Mar 2017, 3:09 am
@Jacoby this relates to you a previous discussion
If you are here I would to concede to you a point. I am still not totally in favor of Scott Walker's Budget control act, but I do think he had his reasons. Teachers were paid around 51,000 which is absolutely high for a public employee in the developed world, his actions against their unions were therefore probably justified, they were paid simply too much. If a debt is to be lowered, sacrifices quite frankly have to be made. I think I went into a bit of groupthink in that I went through a phase where I criticized any actions against unions without elevating the circumstances.
13 Mar 2017, 11:14 am
My previous history teacher I just discovered was a libertarian. Whilst he was teaching is he was objective. I think too objective even about the issues, he rarely offered his viewpoint in class discussions, just merely stated facts and the different viewpoints. I am beginning to wonder whether a reason for why that is the case, is because of some hidden social code, he wasn't meant to encroach on. Effectively he might annoy people and parents if he is out their sprouting his conservative views on a liberal class.
I could be wrong, but it certainly seems more left wing teachers are willing to sprout their viewpoints and more right wing teachers are not, almost keeping their views hidden. It was probably just his personality but the fact he did it always seemed a bit odd. I would ask him what he thought of libertarian viewpoints and politics and never once was he open about his affiliation, it seems odd.
There are two possible explanations: (1) Fear of losing your job if you're not a leftist (a very real fear), and (2) proper professionalism. If you're teaching students at an advanced level, your professional objective should be to make the students strong and independent thinkers, not parrots who repeat indoctrination. The teacher's role in that case is like an athletic trainer (cf. Walt Whitman, "I am a teacher of athletes"), offering resistance to whatever view the student expresses, whether liberal or conservative. By arguing against the teacher, the student becomes stronger. A good socratic teacher should be able to switch sides in the blink of an eye, and the students should rarely be able to tell what the teacher's personal views are. That was once considered standard professional behavior, but leftists do not adhere to that professional code.
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13 Mar 2017, 12:28 pm
Yes, it's a bad thing!! IMO, "goupthink" = sheeple = no one thinking for themselves, and that is very bad, cuz it can be harmful----not only harmful for each individual not forming their own opinion, but it is quite often bad for the people(s) for which they're supposedly trying to help (in the case of SJWs, your teacher, et al., for instance), because sometimes one doesn't TRULY know what they're talking-about, unless they've LIVED it (whatever thing for which they're fighting).
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13 Mar 2017, 12:29 pm
My previous history teacher I just discovered was a libertarian. Whilst he was teaching is he was objective. I think too objective even about the issues, he rarely offered his viewpoint in class discussions, just merely stated facts and the different viewpoints. I am beginning to wonder whether a reason for why that is the case, is because of some hidden social code, he wasn't meant to encroach on. Effectively he might annoy people and parents if he is out their sprouting his conservative views on a liberal class.
I could be wrong, but it certainly seems more left wing teachers are willing to sprout their viewpoints and more right wing teachers are not, almost keeping their views hidden. It was probably just his personality but the fact he did it always seemed a bit odd. I would ask him what he thought of libertarian viewpoints and politics and never once was he open about his affiliation, it seems odd.
It doesn't seem odd to me. I feel that's the way a professional SHOULD handle himself----that his PERSONAL viewpoint (especially, on politics and religion, and other controversial topics), should be kept to himself.
I'm thinking that it's not about the conservatives not being willing to express their viewpoints, it's about them not wanting to lose their JOBS, by expressing viewpoints that go-against the majority----at least, that seems to often be the case in certain sections, of the U.S.
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Campin_Cat
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13 Mar 2017, 12:53 pm
If you are here I would to concede to you a point. I am still not totally in favor of Scott Walker's Budget control act, but I do think he had his reasons. Teachers were paid around 51,000 which is absolutely high for a public employee in the developed world, his actions against their unions were therefore probably justified, they were paid simply too much. If a debt is to be lowered, sacrifices quite frankly have to be made. I think I went into a bit of groupthink in that I went through a phase where I criticized any actions against unions without elevating the circumstances.
I know you were talking to Jacoby, and I don't know what previous conversation you are referring to, but I wanted to make a comment.....
I don't feel that salary is too high----considering what-all teachers have to put-up with (ie, students misbehaving / having no respect for authority, parents who think their "precious" can do no wrong, and not having the supplies they need and having to pay for things, out-of-pocket). Teachers have to provide for THEIR families, as well----and given, say, a family of four, and considering the location of their residence, some teachers might just be breaking-even (and, that's ENOUGH sacrifice, right there, IMO)----what with child-care costs, etc., being what they are.
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13 Mar 2017, 1:02 pm
Groupthink is perennial; nothing you can do about it, except to be aware. Especially with a charismatic teacher; he likely will effect his students.
All professors have agendas, some are more obvious about it then others. It is good that you are aware of your professor's bias. In the meantime, learn what you can from him.
13 Mar 2017, 1:21 pm
Preachy professors get on my last nerve.
Sociology tends to be a hive of this sort of thing.
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13 Mar 2017, 4:20 pm
If you are here I would to concede to you a point. I am still not totally in favor of Scott Walker's Budget control act, but I do think he had his reasons. Teachers were paid around 51,000 which is absolutely high for a public employee in the developed world, his actions against their unions were therefore probably justified, they were paid simply too much. If a debt is to be lowered, sacrifices quite frankly have to be made. I think I went into a bit of groupthink in that I went through a phase where I criticized any actions against unions without elevating the circumstances.
I know you were talking to Jacoby, and I don't know what previous conversation you are referring to, but I wanted to make a comment.....
I don't feel that salary is too high----considering what-all teachers have to put-up with (ie, students misbehaving / having no respect for authority, parents who think their "precious" can do no wrong, and not having the supplies they need and having to pay for things, out-of-pocket). Teachers have to provide for THEIR families, as well----and given, say, a family of four, and considering the location of their residence, some teachers might just be breaking-even (and, that's ENOUGH sacrifice, right there, IMO)----what with child-care costs, etc., being what they are.
Flipsides and advantages are the nature of any job. Teachers may often derive pleasure from helping children and opening them up to have a good life as well as in some cases getting to know them. By comparison someone like a janitor may feel useless since they perform a somewhat menial job they have to perform. I would definitely be a teacher over someone like a bus driver. You spend all day doing a somewhat repetitive job and barely anyone on the bus talks with you.
Wisconsin had just come out a recession in 2011, its a fact that people need to make sacrifices.
13 Mar 2017, 4:48 pm
All professors have agendas, some are more obvious about it then others. It is good that you are aware of your professor's bias. In the meantime, learn what you can from him.
This video made me think about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e50fQLyebI
I think Sociology if it carries on the way it does, could carry this type of thinking.
We learn so much about how the system is bad, but we don't elevate the reasons for why it is that way or why it is necessary. Instead I feel we are taught to rush to an uninformed judgement on the state of the world.
13 Mar 2017, 5:53 pm
We have it as well.
I asked the Sociology teacher why he doesn't include the other side. He said that it was because right wing thinking dominates everything and that people need an alternative point of view. I don't buy into that because if you look at who is in the Sociology class the vast majority of them are liberals. He's not really challenging people's thinking as much as go along with it.
I think this is troubling as when we do not challenge other people's point of views but present a lopsided idea that one side is purely right. We will cause people to be closed off to the other side when in actual fact they might have some good ideas. I told this to the teacher and compared it to be being like the tea party. He responded that it is different as the tea party is a racist backlash against a black president.
13 Mar 2017, 6:02 pm
Well, he certainly knows all the answers, doesn't he.
We have a member here at WP who recently got her master's degree in sociology and, I believe, decided to leave the field for this same reason. Perhaps she will appear and comment.
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13 Mar 2017, 6:08 pm
Whilst I do like the fact he is making us see the world in a different light. I am a little concerned over one thing, Sociology only illustrates one side. For someone who is undecided on their political affiliation and may be doing sociology this can be particularly bad, it makes someone decide too early without gaining the full picture. This has even impacted me, I briefly founded myself supporting more socialist policies that I typically wouldn't of.
In addition I am worried about a groupthink environment being created. The current teacher we have is the type of person who is charismatic(Rated as NZ's most inspirational teacher of the year) and I can see having a big effect on the people he teaches. He has made it seem really cool to be seen as advocating for social justice and I can see many students in the class adopting that same mantra to fit in. Is this a bad thing?
It sounds like the problem is that this particular professor's class is unbalanced, rather than sociology itself.
That is a shortcoming of the professor. It is generally hoped that by the time one gets to college, one has enough critical thinking skill to weigh various variables and decide for one's self which construct the most complete picture of the situation at hand.
Unfortunately there will always be those who lack this and are easily swayed one way or another.
There was a political science professor at my university, who when approached by a group of students who felt his views were too liberal, allowed them to give presentations to present their views to the class. He said that if everyone wasn't offended by the end of the term, then he had failed to offer a balanced presentation of the subject.
Keep in mind though, sociology is discipline that's contained largely within the realm of academia.
