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So what's the deal with Russia?

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ASPartOfMe
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17 Mar 2017, 7:03 pm

JFK was hawkish towered the Soviet Union


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kraftiekortie
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17 Mar 2017, 7:05 pm

JFK had to be.

The USSR was doing some mighty screwy things during that time.

Anti-Communism, in those days, had a substantial basis. The Russian Communists truly wanted to make the whole world Communist.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 17 Mar 2017, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Shahunshah
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17 Mar 2017, 7:06 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Nixon did some destructive things. Cruz hasn't been allowed to do destructive things yet.

He shut down the Government. So many of them play a populist game it seems, whilst causing damage to their own party.

If Ted Cruz were in Roman times, he would beat Julius Caesar's record for the most stabs on the senate floor.



kraftiekortie
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17 Mar 2017, 7:13 pm

Ultimately, Cruz made himself look foolish, though. His stock went way down recently.

The trouble with Romney, the Republican candidate in 2012---is that he reminds me of Ted Baxter from "Mary Taylor Moore"--or that Anchorman guy.

I still can't fathom how Trump was able to win! I'm guessing it's because people wanted "change," any change---just like when somebody plays a card trick on you, and asks you to "pick any card." Trump was an "any card."



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17 Mar 2017, 7:24 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Those movies happened a long time ago! How long are we supposed to hold a grudge? :P


Weve never held any grudge.

The grudge was forgotten in 1991.

There was even hope that the Russian Republic would join NATO. But Putin got rid of democracy in his country, is trying to take over Ukraine, and cyber attacked the US election. And he cyber attacks west european elections as well. So Russia under Putin is a hostile power.

The election hacks were more successful ( and hit closer to our homes here in America) than anything the Old Soviet Union ever did to us during the original Cold War. The old stogy soviet dictators were not nearly as savvy (socially, or tech-wise) as Putin and his modern henchmen are. So in may ways Putin is far more scary than seemingly more belligerent Soviet dictators of old were.


Considering how much stuff the US and UK has taken over, including the US taking over Iraq, I don't see trying to take over a neighboring country as necessarily all that evil. The US bombs the crap out of Iraq, invades and conquers it - that's perfectly okay. Russia does something to a much smaller degree - and they're war criminals.

There is no empirical evidence or any actual proof that Putin had anything to do with John Podesta getting a generic phishing scam that millions of people get. This seems a clear case of people being brainwashed into believing in something as fact, when it's not.



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17 Mar 2017, 7:29 pm

I'm not lobbying for Russia to be an ally, I'm just looking for a legitimate beef.



Shahunshah
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17 Mar 2017, 7:32 pm

EzraS wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Those movies happened a long time ago! How long are we supposed to hold a grudge? :P


Weve never held any grudge.

The grudge was forgotten in 1991.

There was even hope that the Russian Republic would join NATO. But Putin got rid of democracy in his country, is trying to take over Ukraine, and cyber attacked the US election. And he cyber attacks west european elections as well. So Russia under Putin is a hostile power.

The election hacks were more successful ( and hit closer to our homes here in America) than anything the Old Soviet Union ever did to us during the original Cold War. The old stogy soviet dictators were not nearly as savvy (socially, or tech-wise) as Putin and his modern henchmen are. So in may ways Putin is far more scary than seemingly more belligerent Soviet dictators of old were.


Considering how much stuff the US and UK has taken over, including the US taking over Iraq, I don't see trying to take over a neighboring country as necessarily all that evil. The US bombs the crap out of Iraq, invades and conquers it - that's perfectly okay. Russia does something to a much smaller degree - and they're war criminals.

There is no empirical evidence or any actual proof that Putin had anything to do with John Podesta getting a generic phishing scam that millions of people get. This seems a clear case of people being brainwashed into believing in something as fact, when it's not.
Well Putin was invading a sovereign democratic country. With Iraq it was different, it was believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. And many in the US did denounce Bush as a war criminal.



kraftiekortie
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17 Mar 2017, 7:35 pm

There is evidence that Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on the Kurds around 1988, and at other times.



Shahunshah
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17 Mar 2017, 7:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There is evidence that Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on the Kurds around 1988, and at other times.
He did.



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17 Mar 2017, 7:47 pm

I truly think our image would have been enhanced had we, the US, prevented the genocide which occurred in Rwanda and Burundi in 1994. Millions of people were killed because of ethnic differences. Tutsis massacred Hutus. Hutus massacred Tutsis.



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17 Mar 2017, 8:44 pm

In regard to the OP's query of why we don't trust the Russians: We did very much trust Yeltsin, as much as a senile alcoholic that he became. But in the hearts and minds of most Americans, he will always be the man who heroically stood on that tank, in defiance against the coup meant to unseat Gorbachev. We even came to trust Gorby, when we realized he was serious about ending Soviet totalitarianism. But Putin has more in common with the people who were behind the anti-reform coup, as he is not only threatening to usher in a new age of Russian imperialism, but also a new age of fascistic populist nationalism.


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kraftiekortie
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17 Mar 2017, 9:03 pm

Gorbachev and De Klerk share parallelisms. Both were the members of the "old regimes" who wanted to dispense with the "old regimes." Both succeeded.

I definitely prefer Gorbachev over Putin.

I liked Gorbachev, and I liked his wife.



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17 Mar 2017, 11:46 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Gorbachev and De Klerk share parallelisms. Both were the members of the "old regimes" who wanted to dispense with the "old regimes." Both succeeded.

I definitely prefer Gorbachev over Putin.

I liked Gorbachev, and I liked his wife.


I will say this: Putin actually has an incredibly hot daughter who, in my opinion, puts Ivanka Trump to shame.


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18 Mar 2017, 3:46 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Gorbachev and De Klerk share parallelisms. Both were the members of the "old regimes" who wanted to dispense with the "old regimes." Both succeeded.

I definitely prefer Gorbachev over Putin.

I liked Gorbachev, and I liked his wife.


I will say this: Putin actually has an incredibly hot daughter who, in my opinion, puts Ivanka Trump to shame.


Did Putin ever say he'd date her if she wasn't his daughter? :P



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18 Mar 2017, 4:28 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Gorbachev and De Klerk share parallelisms. Both were the members of the "old regimes" who wanted to dispense with the "old regimes." Both succeeded.

I definitely prefer Gorbachev over Putin.

I liked Gorbachev, and I liked his wife.


I will say this: Putin actually has an incredibly hot daughter who, in my opinion, puts Ivanka Trump to shame.


Did Putin ever say he'd date her if she wasn't his daughter? :P


No; on that point, Putin is actually a more decent person than Trump.


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