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GoonSquad
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09 May 2017, 9:06 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
Scientists and others who follow a peer-review system are pressured to have data to back up their opinions. If you don't have data, you don't have a right to an opinion; it will not be taken seriously. Academics follow the data. If the numbers lead to a specific political conclusion, then it's important to not dismiss that. Ideologues will try to tell you all kinds of bs. It's up to you to find out if there are sound statistics behind their conclusion.

So, if a bunch of people who have dedicated their lives to studying history tell you that the president is unsound, then their opinion has value. They have studied source material and analyzed trends. They're reaching that conclusion from an informed perspective based on a lifetime of study. Similarly, if a climate scientist comes to the conclusion that global warming is anthropogenic, then their opinion has more value than some politician. It takes years of scientific research to come to these conclusions. Don't trust some random person on the internet when you can ask a legitimate professional instead.


I believe what you're referring to is STEM.

The humanities are in an alien universe of their own.


You don't know what you are talking about.


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09 May 2017, 9:08 pm

Reality has a liberal bias.


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techstepgenr8tion
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09 May 2017, 10:14 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I believe what you're referring to is STEM.

The humanities are in an alien universe of their own.


You don't know what you are talking about.

That right?

http://glq.dukejournals.org/content/20/4/439.abstract


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GoonSquad
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09 May 2017, 11:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I believe what you're referring to is STEM.

The humanities are in an alien universe of their own.


You don't know what you are talking about.

That right?

http://glq.dukejournals.org/content/20/4/439.abstract

Oh, you have a link to some weird article of some kind. Well, that settles things... :roll:

If you have access to an academic database I can link you to 100s of peer reviewed research articles that use the scientific method in subjects like sociology, psychology, political science.

Your assertion that only STEM subjects use such methods was overly general and obviously wrong, and I call BS.

Suck it up snowflake. :)

PS

here's an example of a legitimate article...

http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full ... s.49.6.797


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 May 2017, 12:44 am

GoonSquad wrote:
Your assertion that only STEM subjects use such methods was overly general and obviously wrong, and I call BS.

Truthfully I haven't been reading this thread from end to end so I don't think you'll get much of an accurate readout of what I'm thinking by hermeneutics.

What's bothered me is a thread flowing through it, lapping up occasionally, that seems to read in favor of the notion that anyone whose suggesting the colleges are tipping perniciously left are uneducated bumpkins, or asserting in tandem with this that reality itself tips far enough left that anyone with eyes to see should be able to tell that this is a self-delivered indictment on one's own intelligence to claim that its a bad thing. Watching the current politics play out it seems like there are fewer and fewer people, even within academia, who are pure enough in their ideology to make the grade and you even get long-time respected faculty getting vitriolic demands for their resignation over even saying, in the most polite and abstract way you could, 'lighten up - it's Halloween' in the face of cultural appropriation claims. I think there are enough very credible center-left professors, interestingly enough at least a few of the most noteworthy in psychology, standing up and calling the situation out and trying to suggest solutions to the social dilemma. What I will give most of the professors - what the radical activists are doing (those generated on campus who are trying to bully the administration with outlandish demands) seem to be getting riled up by professors who are in fields that would mean very little if activism weren't still in business and in full swing. I wouldn't apply that to psychology or things like that in the formal sense, it does apply more to offices such as race and gender studies and groups similar to where the article I shared came from.


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10 May 2017, 7:19 am

I think Liberals tend more towards academia than Conservatives, so it is not surprising that they are more represented there.

Conservatives don't value learning, their moral center is around personal success and acquisitions; learning can get in the way of these things.



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10 May 2017, 8:09 am

androbot01 wrote:

Conservatives don't value learning, their moral center is around personal success and acquisitions; learning can get in the way of these things.


Any empirical evidence to back up that claim? America's system of public education, in fact, seems to contradict your assertion.

I'm conservative, and I value personal responsibility and the pursuit of excellence, and the acquisition of knowledge helps in their attainment.



androbot01
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10 May 2017, 9:07 am

Shrapnel wrote:
...I value personal responsibility and the pursuit of excellence, and the acquisition of knowledge helps in their attainment.


What are your thoughts on Trump's behavior with regard to personal responsibility? I don't think he has shown any.



techstepgenr8tion
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10 May 2017, 11:17 am

androbot01 wrote:
I think Liberals tend more towards academia than Conservatives, so it is not surprising that they are more represented there.

The topic gets challenging because what gets classed as more conservative, too conservative, or anywhere right of center seems like its a moving target.

I do think there's good evidence for a lot of more purely social conservatives, whether they vote republican or democrat (think of the south before Reagan for the later) and you have people who you'd classify simply by being more small town and rustic thus the group sizes they're used to dealing with and the types of social norms that their environment has run well on tends to disincline them from perceived over-complication of life. There are also conservatives who are something more the bulwark against progressives moving too fast and are more of the motto 'make haste slowly' because they want to see self-organizing and self-balancing systems and society keep up with the changes (the lack of them can be a danger if things move too fast). You also have neocons/neolibs and various types of libertarians and even liberal libertarians are starting to look more and more like the new center of debate.

I think what's happened at the colleges in terms of racing to the left-pole is that people like to work in places where they find like minds. The downside to this is that if most people feel like they're in a place where their of a minority opinion they'll either hunker down and not say much or they'll simply leave, or - if the reputation or social flavor of a sphere hits them early - they may curb their aspirations to become a professor and work in business instead. I think that acceleration is mostly this, and the more it accelerates the more caricatured the residual environment becomes. I really don't think this has a whole lot more to do with the superiority of progressive or left-leaning thought than the superiority of Christian conservative thought that dominated the divinity schools. I would argue, perhaps on behalf of the center-left, that rights and good will between all kinds of groups and incorporating them into the fabric of society gainfully makes their lives better and it's a net good, at the same time it also means that they assimilate into society in terms of having a niche, having a role, a good they deliver and the responsibilities to go with those rights. I won't harp too much on the later because I think more people than not get it, but I do see where in the public mass movement memeosphere there's not much discussion of the later and it seems like something that the center and right are more likely to bring up.


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10 May 2017, 12:04 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
... tends to disincline them from perceived over-complication of life. ...
...
... they may curb their aspirations to become a professor and work in business instead. I think that acceleration is mostly this, and the more it accelerates the more caricatured the residual environment becomes. ...


I think knowledge scares people sometimes; sometimes people want to live in an illusion rather than confront the reality of their environment.



Bataar
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10 May 2017, 12:19 pm

androbot01 wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
... tends to disincline them from perceived over-complication of life. ...
...
... they may curb their aspirations to become a professor and work in business instead. I think that acceleration is mostly this, and the more it accelerates the more caricatured the residual environment becomes. ...


I think knowledge scares people sometimes; sometimes people want to live in an illusion rather than confront the reality of their environment.

Exactly. That explains college millennials perfectly.



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10 May 2017, 12:23 pm

Bataar wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
... tends to disincline them from perceived over-complication of life. ...
...
... they may curb their aspirations to become a professor and work in business instead. I think that acceleration is mostly this, and the more it accelerates the more caricatured the residual environment becomes. ...


I think knowledge scares people sometimes; sometimes people want to live in an illusion rather than confront the reality of their environment.

Exactly. That explains college millennials perfectly.

And quite a few of their professors.


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techstepgenr8tion
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10 May 2017, 5:42 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I think knowledge scares people sometimes; sometimes people want to live in an illusion rather than confront the reality of their environment.

This is part of why I really love Jordan Peterson's take on Nietzsche and Jung. My first concern usually when people wheel out some kind of Manichean boogeyman to blame all their problems and the pain of living on is that they're throwing a scapegoat between themselves and the possibility of facing the that life is just hard and meaningless period or even facing their own past and current behavior in the cold light of day. In other cases fear of knowledge or education might be the fear that education will lead them to the blank emptiness of a universe without a creator or without a purpose.

Seems like anytime you see shoot-the-messenger behavior going on there's a deeper sacred metaphysical object or shared belief that's being attacked by that message along with a subconscious (or conscious) understanding by the people acting that way that the message is for the most part true and that whatever game was in play would be up for dissolution if that message won out.


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19 May 2017, 7:17 pm

Gad Saad had some very interesting things here to say about the internal cohesiveness or lack of it across the social sciences.


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26 May 2017, 12:45 pm

Bay Area college professor used U-shaped bike lock in beating, police say
Alleged Antifa bike lock attacker Eric Clanton held in Berkeley jail

BERKELEY — A former Diablo Valley College professor was arrested Wednesday in connection with the use of a bike lock in the beating of three people during a rally for President Donald Trump last month, police said Thursday.

Eric Clanton remained in custody in lieu of $200,000 bail at Berkeley Jail on Thursday and is scheduled to be arraigned at 9 a.m. Friday at Oakland’s Wiley W. Manuel Courthouse. He was arrested on three counts of suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon that isn’t a firearm and assault causing great bodily injury.


http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/05/24/ ... t-suspect/


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GoonSquad
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27 May 2017, 11:31 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Gad Saad had some very interesting things here to say about the internal cohesiveness or lack of it across the social sciences.


So, he's not wrong when he says that social sciences are sciences because the people who study them use the scientific method in order to find objective truth...


There's the thing, psychology, sociology, etc. are soft sciences because we simply cannot boil them down to the cold equations, yet. I firmly believe that all human behavior, thought processes, emotional states, etc. correspond to physical brain states. Unfortunately, we simply do not have the technology to measure these brain states at this time. Therefore, social science remains soft and slippery and depends on a lot of theory and supposition that we can only test indirectly.


That being said, the best theoretical frames do build on the things we know about the brain's "firmware" that all humans seem to possess. For example, humans seem to be hardwired for antipathy toward those they consider different and affinity toward those they consider similar. Humans also have a strong survival drive, they seem to be hardwired for religion, etc.

But, that's about as far as we can go toward internal cohesiveness at this point. Because the social sciences are so soft slippery and theory dependent, there are a lot of fringe/nutty theories out there (like the one you linked to previously). However, that's not representative of main stream social science. When people point to that kind of "social science", it's basically just a bunch of strawman nonsense, put out by anti-intellectual cultural warriors trying to gin up the sort of hysterical reactions we see in this thread.


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